Getting (non TDS protected) desposit back, LA worried about bills!

[danielson81]

Hi there,

I moved out of a property over 5 weeks ago, to date we have not had our deposit back. Last week I sent the LA the letter below, as I knew our deposit was not protected.

I phoned them up today and asked them politely if they had received the letter, they said yes and they would give us our deposit back if we provided proof we had settled all the bills. They didn't seem concerned about the TDS issue!

Well, I have transferred the bills to our new address and obviously can't afford to pay them (£500!) without the deposit. I thought it was a unfair contract clause to demand utility bills are settled in full before returning a deposit.

My initial thoughts are to send them a "Notice Before Action" letter (or straight to the landlord) and give them another 7 days.

Anyway, here is the first letter with made up address:

Dear Letting agent,

RE: 1 The Street, London

I am the former tenant of the above property. My assured shorthold tenancy agreement is dated 17th July 2006, and was followed by renewals on 17th January 2007 and 17th July 2007 which ended on the 18th March 2008.

The original deposit of £1500 was paid in July 2006 as security against my obligations in the tenancy agreement.

This deposit should have been transferred to a recognised government deposit protection scheme on the 17th July 2007 as a new tenancy agreement was signed and created.

Since then:

1. I believe you have not met the initial requirements of an authorised tenancy deposit protection scheme; and

2. I have not been able to obtain confirmation from a scheme administrator that my deposit is being held in accordance with such a scheme; and

3. I have not received the prescribed information which you are required by law to send me within 14 days of receiving my deposit

In the circumstances, I am entitled to have my deposit refunded in full, and you are requested to attend to this within 7 days of the date of this letter.

Please note all the utility bills have been transferred under *our name to our new address*, and even if we did not pay them they would chase us, the former tenants and not the landlord/agent.

If I do not hear from you within 7 days or receive my deposit back in full, I may begin legal proceedings to recover my deposit without further recourse to you.

My claim will include a claim for any interest, costs and compensation to which I may be entitled.

I am sure you are aware the court can order a landlord/agent to pay tenants three times the amount of the deposit in compensation for not complying with Section 213 (1) of the Housing Act 2004.

I look forward to hearing from you.
etc..


Any advice or help appreciated!

[tiglet]

Bump

[Planner]

A recent county court judgement indicates that a deposit paid before 6th April 2007 doesnt need to be protected even if the AST was renewed/resigned after the 6th April 2007. Personally I think the decision is wrong, and obviously its only county court so not binding.

If the utilities where in your name they are nothing to do with the ll/agents. They could quite easily keep £XXX to pay the bills and not do, then you would be £XXX out of pocket and still have to pay the utility companies.

The letter before action is the way to go.

[danielson81]

Thanks.

I've got as feeling the LL/Agent may know about this "loophole" and thats why they dont seem bothered. But I will send them a notice before action anyway.
However the court fees would be high as its a claim for £6000+ (£1500 dep, plus £4500 x3, plus fees etc.), can't afford to lose £80 each (£250apprx fees between 3).

[Planner]

You would use the N208 route rather than the traditional N1 county court claim form, costing only £150.

[danielson81]

UPDATE:

Received a package today, containing this letter and some forwarded post:

Dear Sirs,

Re: 1 The Street, London

I write in relation to your letter of the 16th April 2008.

As previously discussed we are happy to refund deposits to tenants that have been residing at the above address: Mr X, Mr Y and Mr Z

It is our policy, once we have had the final bills in from all tenants together with a letter from the Landlord, to refund any deposit held. However if you have transferred all bills to your current address and can supply poof of this, I would be happy to refund your deposit.

I have spoken to your Landlord and she is happy to supply us with the relevant documentation, once we have either had proof that all bills have been re directed to your new address or final bills have been received.

I enclose your post that has been collected from the above address.

Kind Regards

etc.

My initial thoughts were that they just want proof the bills have been transferred and not paid.

However "supply us with the relevant documentation" worries me as there may be deductions.

They forwarded some post sent to our old address, are they trying to butter us up, and think they could lose this?

[Planner]

You have two options;

1) show them the bills and get it over with

2) dont show them the bills and continue to fight them.

Personally I would go for options 2 as they have no right what so ever to see them. If you follow this route then I would write them a LBA (letter before action) saying that you are unwilling to supply them with personal correspndance from the utilities which are all in your name and they would never be liable for them anyway. Given them 7 days to respond. Print off the N1 county court claim form and fill it in. Mention in the letter that this will be submitted to the county court on the 2nd May (for example) should the deposit not be back with you.

Alternativley if you fancy the N208 route for non deposit protection (be aware of the two recent cases, one positive one not as positvie) print this off and fill it in.

Be very clear. N1 is for the return of the deposit and to argue about showing/not showing the utility bills. N208 is for none TDS complaince.

[danielson81]

Update:

Faxed the agents copies of the bills and they said they would return the deposit in a few days. Well 10 days later NOTHING!!

So today I am going to send a "Notice before action" and already have downloaded and filled in a N208, using the wording on this website.

However, as there were three of us living there do we need to have 3 separate court cases, as I think you can only have 1 claimant on a court form, or can we nominate 1 person for all three persons deposits etc.

Would I be right in assuming I serve papers on the landlady and not the agents?

On a more positive note the landlady keeps forwarding us post from the old address

Thanks!

[Planner]

Originally Posted by danielson81

Update:

Faxed the agents copies of the bills and they said they would return the deposit in a few days. Well 10 days later NOTHING!!

So today I am going to send a "Notice before action" and already have downloaded and filled in a N208, using the wording on this website.

However, as there were three of us living there do we need to have 3 separate court cases, as I think you can only have 1 claimant on a court form, or can we nominate 1 person for all three persons deposits etc.

Would I be right in assuming I serve papers on the landlady and not the agents?

On a more positive note the landlady keeps forwarding us post from the old address

Thanks!

Initially I would send the LBA and the filled in (but un submitted) court form to both the agents and the landlady. If no luck within the deadline then list the landlady as the defendant when you serve the papers (note that you can list the agents as well for no extra cost if you arent sure)

[danielson81]

Thanks Planer,

As there were three of us named on the AST, can all three of us be listed as claimants, or do we each have to claim separately or nominate one of us.

But if say Tenant 1 represented all of us, is it tenant 1s business about tenant 2 and 3s deposit?

Sorry for all the questions, I want to make sure I get it right!

[danielson81]

Thanks for your replies.. but today 3 cheques were on the doormat, so as long as they clear there is no need for court action!

The landlady also sent a separate letter, and had the cheek to say "this is a matter between the letting agents and yourselves!

Oh well, there goes the non deposit protection claim of 3x deposit!

Thanks once again for everyone's advice, it has made the whole process a lot easier.