Tenancy Ended on Feb 2008 but it was signed on Feb 2007

[WidowK]

Hi all

I am wondering whether somebody can help me on this.

My husband signed a joint tenancy agreement on Feb 2007. Last October, my husband passed away and I begged landlord to release me from tenancy agreement 3 months early but she refused my request. It was joint tenancy even though I didn't sign this contract.

She said that even though I didn't sign, it didn't matter because I will still be responsible for paying full rent including utility bills until tenancy ends on 8th Feb 2008. If I don't pay, she won't give me reference for new accommodation and she will sue me. So, I had no choice but to stay in that property even though I didn't want to stay there any longer because of sad memory.

My tenancy ended as she suggested on the date specified in the contract, I paid utility bills up to that day and send her scanned image of final bills straight away.

She promised to return my deposit £650 once she received proof of final bills but she is making various of excuses not to return my deposit now.

Last excuse I heard was that she wants to discuss this issue with her solicitors because she received this deposit from my late husband, she doesn't think I can receive this deposit back even though this was joint tenancy. She insisted initially that I had full responsibility to pay even though my husband is passed away. My husband didn't leave will.

I knew that she was very unreasonable person from the beginning but I can't understand why she is doing this to me even after I have done everything she asked me to and left that property in a very good condition which I have a witness and pictures as well.

I have been contacting her via email and phone but she doesn't seem to reply to me any more. I sent letter before action last week and I haven't heard anything from her yet.

Could anyone help me what I should do next, please?
It's more than 2 months since tenancy ended but I am struggling to get deposit back without good reason.

Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

K

[nufsaid]

Hi Widowk I am sorry for your loss.

What a nasty piece of work your landlady was.

I am not sure on tenancy agreements and the law but I know some brainy bod on here will know be patient someone will get back to you.

How long ago was it you sent the LBA and did you give a time frame for a response, also did you send it recorded and track to see if it was signed for ?

NS. x

[Esio Trot]

There are a couple of facts that have a bearing here.

• If as you say you are not named on the tenancy agreement, then you have no occupation rights, and also were not liable to pay rent.
• The tenancy agreement does not end on the death of the tenant. Until possession is parted with by whoever is the executor, then the liabilities (i.e. rent due) is a liability on the estate of the deceased.

You need to study the tenancy agreement as this will have details of the deposit. You need to know if it was held as landlords agent or stakeholder.

If you were executor of your late husband's estate then it is simple - you get the deposit.

[WidowK]

Thanks guys for your reply :o)

Even though I didn't sign this tenancy agreement on 9th Feb 2007, my name is in the tenancy agreement (joint tenancy) and I am an excutor of my late husband's estate however, he didn't leave any asset except for debts.

I did everything accordining to English law but I do not understand why I am having such a hard time with this landlord.

I am just so sad that I have to go through hardship even after I left that property.

I am already having hard time working full time and looking after a daughter on my own. I am not getting any help from everywhere because I am working. I can't afford to stay home waiting for somebody to help. I do not want to loose job to get legal aid to get decent legal advice.

It's just frustrating...

If I have to file a small claims I will defanately do it but I would like to avoid and find a best to deal with this situation.

I had a private landlord, so there's no realestate agency involved.
Landlord have around 80 houses in this area known as Bowman Enterprises. I can't even contact ARLA or council because they are not member of any regulating body.

I sent numerous emails since last month giving them 7days to reply. Every time, they gave me different reason why they didn't return my deposit. When I called them 10 days ago, they told me that they need clarification from their solicitors and called me back. They never returned my call since then. Last Saturday, I sent a letter before action via first class recorded mail with 7 days to reply. Tomorrow is deadline but I don't think they will respond to me again.

It would be great if anyone can tell me what's the best way to handle this issue.

Thanks again

[johnhowell]

WidowK,

You was named on the tenancy agreement - you can recieve the deposit.
You are the exectrix of your late husbands estate - you are charged with collecting any debts owed to the estate as well as paying any debts owing by the estate.

This land lady is wrong - if she wants to go to a solicitor then thats up to her. She had 28 days in which to pay back the deposit - usually stated in the tenancy agreement. After the dead line, write to her again and I assume you could start adding interest for late payment. I bet you get a lot of excuses about deductions for cleaning bills and damage. She will have to prove these costs.

The utility bills were in your name and have nothing to do with her - even if you had not paid them - she would not have been liable (except possibly Council Tax).

Good luck, we are following your other tread, please be strong and let us know how things go.

Regards,
John

[WidowK]

I had a letter from landlady and now she is asking me to provide "death certificate" and indemnify her against any claims against the deopsit as their is no will upon receiving this in writing. I sent the death certificate but I do not know how to indemnify against any claims against the deposit. Is this really necessary? She is insisting that this is advice she recieved from her solicitors but I never receive a letter from her solicitors so far.

It would be appreciated if anyone can give me advice on this.

Thanks

[Ed999]

The request you have received from the landlord suggests that you have not yet obtained a Grant of Administration from the Probate Court (the type of Grant of Probate that is issued where the deceased person did not leave a Will), authorising you to administer your late husband's estate.

Without such a Grant it is difficult to persuade creditors to pay up: the request by the creditor for an indemnity is therefore a reasonable one, in case someone else has a better right to such a Grant than you.

You would need to produce a certified copy of the death certificate (certified by a solicitor), and the written indemnity, if you don't have a Grant of Administration. You need to see a solicitor to get a suitable deed of indemnity drawn up. It is a straightforward document, that you can adapt for other creditors too (if any). You don't need to do this if you have obtained a Grant of Administration.

In principle you don't usually have to apply for probate if the value of the estate is less than £5,000 or if all the assets are in joint names. All you then need do is register the death certificate with the appropriate creditor, such as a bank or Building society, who may ask you to sign an indemnity form confirming that if any beneficiary comes forward in the future you accept responsibility for paying them.

But if you are simply being given the run-around after already doing all the above properly, then if you are the executor of your husband's estate under a Grant of Administration you can sue on behalf of both tenants for the return of the rent deposit.

Where there is no Will, in order to be able to sue you should first obtain a Grant of Administration.

The details of how to sue to recover a rent deposit are in this thread: Unfair deposit deductions and as explained there the first step is to send a letter before action (LBA) to the landlord.


Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[WidowK]

Thank you for your reply.

I already sent the death certificate however, she insisted me to send indemnity letter. Because my late husband didn't leave any asset except for debts, I did not need to request letter of administration so far.

Do I need to go to see solicitors to be able to get indemnity letter or can I just send letter indicating I will indemnify in case if any beneficiary comes forward in the future you accept responsibility for paying them. I do not believe that anyone else can request deposit on behalf of my late husband.

I didn't even have any issue with drawing money from banks because it was small amount and death certificate was sufficient evidence. However, I think she is trying to delay return of deposit as much as she can to avoid payment.

It's just hassle to go to see solicitors and pay to draw indemnity letter for such a small amount of money. I do not even have any other creditors anyway. That was the reason I didn't even get letter of administration.

Thanks a lot for your help.
I will go and see solicitors this week.

I will let you guys know after sending this letter. I bet she will make another excuse not to pay me. But if I have to do this, then I will do whatever I need to then sue her after. I won't let her get away with this.

Thanks again

[Esio Trot]

If you go and see a lawyer, it will cost you money - and you may end up spending as much or more than the deposit in question.

For such a relatively small amount I think she is giving you the run around.

For goodness sake, you were man and wife. If you were just co-sharers, I could understand her wanting an indemnity. As you were married, this has special treatment in many aspects of law.

Rather than you spend money getting an indemnity, get her to draw up a document (at her cost!).

Even better than the above will be to cut this matter short. Send her a seven-day Letter Before Action on the basis that there is no valid ground for her to continue holding the deposit. Once the week is up, do a small claim in the county court. It will be cheaper than a lawyer, and when (which is my opinion of the outcome) the case goes in your favour she will be required to hand over the money.