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16th April 2008, 19:02
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#3 (permalink)
| | Platinum Account Customer | Re: TENANCY DEPOSIT CASE (Section 213 HA 2004) RentedAndRankled:
Can you learn to Google?
It seems a little odd that your post contains....what exactly? Assumption that I made it up? Tenancy Deposit Scheme |
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16th April 2008, 22:21
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#5 (permalink)
| | Site Team | Re: TENANCY DEPOSIT CASE (Section 213 HA 2004) Joa - I do not doubt the case is genuine and I know the difficulties with obtaining actual written county court judgements (as they are non binding)but can you tell us the original source of the case please.
__________________ If I have been helpful please click on my scales and add a comment. |
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16th April 2008, 23:02
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#7 (permalink)
| | Site Team | Re: TENANCY DEPOSIT CASE (Section 213 HA 2004) Okay thanks, as long as it is posted on this thread I should see it.
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17th April 2008, 09:47
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#8 (permalink)
| | Basic Account Customer | Re: TENANCY DEPOSIT CASE (Section 213 HA 2004) Gloucestershire Family and Civil Court is often referred to as Gloucester County Court, even in their own documentation, as you will notice by the email address. enquiries@gloucester.coun tycourt.gsi.gov.uk
This would have been where the case would have been heard in Glos. as it is the one for all civil matters. If R&R had read properly he would have noticed the by-line:
"With thanks to Gloucestershire Shelter"
A little research goes a long way. |
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17th April 2008, 12:15
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#10 (permalink)
| | Site Team | Re: TENANCY DEPOSIT CASE (Section 213 HA 2004) A claim is normally allocated to the defendant's local court, save where the claimant is a litigant in person. Where the claimant is a LIP the case in normally heard in the court nearest to the LIP which is usually the originating court.
Gloucester is a combined court, there clearly is a court that deals with civil matters there, you need only look here (and select Gloucestershire Family and Civil Courts from the search) and at the email addresses which are x@gloucester.countycourt. gsi.gov.uk.
Anyway I think you should just wait until Joa responds to post 6.
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17th April 2008, 14:02
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#12 (permalink)
| | Basic Account Customer | Re: TENANCY DEPOSIT CASE (Section 213 HA 2004) Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoT A claim is normally allocated to the defendant's local court, save where the claimant is a litigant in person. Where the claimant is a LIP the case in normally heard in the court nearest to the LIP which is usually the originating court. | Isn't it the case that if the defendant is a LIP then the case is allocated to the defendants court irrespective of whether or not the claimaint is an LIP?
I'm in the middle of a non-TDS complaince case, bothe the LL and I are LIPs, and the case has been allocated to the LLs local court. |
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17th April 2008, 14:06
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#13 (permalink)
| | Basic Account Customer | Re: TENANCY DEPOSIT CASE (Section 213 HA 2004) Quote:
Originally Posted by Planner I think your right we should wait for Joa. Although why someone (obviously not Joa!) would go to such lengths to "fake" a result only then to attribute it to a non-existent court seems a bit of a nonsense. Things are looking up! | I very much doubt anyone would fake a result.
My concern was that this will be used as an example case, and although the judgement is not setting a precedent it does indicate the most likley outcome of a non-TDS compliance action, and therefore it's important to get all the details correct.
That is why I asked Joa to verify his source as his source may have got the court name wrong due to it not being listed on the HMCS list. |
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18th April 2008, 21:30
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#15 (permalink)
| | Gold Account Customer | Re: TENANCY DEPOSIT CASE (Section 213 HA 2004) An unfortunate outcome posted on the landlord zone forums, and one imho, that should be challanged; Well I can put this case to bed now, the hearing was this afternoon and this is what happened and what can be inferred from the judges comments. The summarise - my situation was that I paid a deposit in April 06, for a 12 month AST. Then signed a new 12 month AST in April 07 for 12 months. The deposit was continued to be held against the new tenancy. The LL didn't protect it, but subsequently did on receipt of the court papers with mydeposits.co.uk (an insurance based scheme). I used N208 based on Planner's wording. The judge made the following comments: 1. As it was a part 8 claim, a letter before action would not have made any difference as it's an absolute matter and no room for negotiation (in response to defendant's complaint about no LBA). 2. The fact that the LL had subsequently protected the deposit made no difference to the case. It would still lead to judgement for either return or protection + x3 penalty. 3. It was an absolute matter, with no case for morals or discretion on a penalty, it was all or nothing. HOWEVER! I lost the case The Housing Act 2004 says that a deposit falls under the new legislation if it is paid and received after April 6th 2007. The judge said that she had to consider whether the fact that the deposit was already in the defendant's possession and that it was agreed it would be a new deposit for the new 12 month AST, it was not in the traditional sense paid by me and received by the LL. She ruled that the deposit was paid by me and received by the LL in April 2006, hence the deposit had to requirement for protection. She said that that was her personal interpretation of paid and received and that the HA 2004 was not detailed as to the definition of both. She said that she may be wrong but without the guidance of a higher court ruling and with regret that that was her stance. So that is that - a big surprise to me. I didn't really ever question this point as from the online research and relevant leaflets etc from various sources that the vast concensus was that it didn't apply to renewals or periodics but it would apply for new ASTs where a deposit was continued to be held. I put forward about as many arguments as I could but was getting nowhere. I feel that appealing at this point would not get me any further. So I live with the knowledge that issuing the court papers when I did and then getting my Section 21 shortly after, forced me to find and move into a beautiful new flat which would now be on the market for £200 more per month so I've made back my court fee already... my way of justifying the loss. This should be of great help to those who signed and paid after April 2007, whose LL protected the deposit outside of the 14 days. On this point the judge agreed that the ruling would be absolutely clear and it was purely the 'paid and received' point on which I failed. Make of that what you will and thank you all for your assistance with making my case. It was an interesting process and I learnt a lot, as a tenant and as a landlord! |
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21st April 2008, 09:39
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#17 (permalink)
| | Basic Account Customer | Re: TENANCY DEPOSIT CASE (Section 213 HA 2004) For anyone interested in obtaining a copy of the judgement the case number is 8GL00457 (Stankova-v-Glassonbury). If you wish to obtain a copy the district judge has requested that;
'A request should be made, by letter, duly signed, giving a reason for the
request' |
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