Deposit refund

[ScarletPimpernel]

Apologies for a long post.

I seem to be a magnet for landlords who don't want to do repairs...

The owner of the house I am currently renting wants to sell, and we wanted to move; although I was concerned that there may be a drama with the deposit (landlord has money robs), I've had a meeting with him and I'm now happy tat things will be done properly.

However...

We found another place; a bungalow in the country, which seemed ideal - we could have our dogs, and the landlord was seeking someone long term. The house belonged to the landlord's late father, and has been rented for about a year since his death, but has been empty for some months.

When we looked at it, it was clear that a fair amount of work was needed to bring it up to a good standard, and to make it worth the rent; the agent told us that the rent was based upon the premise that the necessary works would be done. We spoke to the landlord who agreed that the whole house needed to be deep cleaned and redecorated; it also needed new caret throughout and various repairs. The garden needed to be tidied and the summerhouse, outbuildings and garage contained landlord's property that was to be removed. We paid the deposit to secure the property and a date was set for us to move.

Just before the move date, we were told that the decorators had not finished, and would need a few more days. Because of our commitments, the new date was set two weeks afterwards - which will be this coming Saturday. I've booked a removal firm and we are packed.

The landlord had suggested that we choose carpet and deduct the cost from the rent. Also, as the property has solid wooden floors, we intended to have some of them sanded and polished - we have a friend who will do this. yesterday my OH went to get the key so the floor polisher and another friend who's a builder could go in to start work and measure up for shelves and so on.

OH rang me in tears - it seems that very little has been done. Apart from the decorating being very poorly done, she also found the kitchen filthy - with food still in fridge and freezer, dirty cooker, dirty dishwasher and tiles falling from the wall in the larder. Other rooms are in equally bad order - the bathroom has tiles missing and mould on the walls. There are electrical sockets hanging off the wall, and in one room exposed wires; some light fittings are broken; the tv aerial socket is hanging off the wall; the telephone socket is smashed. The old carpets have been taken up, but have been left in the utility room. None of the landlord's property has been removed from the summerhouse, outhouses or garage. The garden is untouched.

It appears that a cursory clean was done before we viewed, since when, apart from the bodge decorating, nothing has been done; if anything, it's been made worse.

My question is this: We do not wish to proceed now. In my view, the house is not ready to move into; in fact, as it stands, I don't think it's inhabitable - not least because of the safety risk from exposed wires and so on. Further, if the landlord hasn't done these basic things, what will happen if repairs are needed in future? Can the agent/landlord keep the holding deposit (which is the same as the 'normal' deposit that would be required at the start of the tenancy), or do we have grounds to get it back because the landlord has clearly failed to fulfill her obligations?

[Hopeful1]

Hi Scarlet. Did you move in on Saturday?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Better late than never...

No, we didn't move in. The letting agent visited the property and agreed that it was not inhabitable as it was. The owner took the property out of their hands. I have now heard that another agent had it for a week or so, and also decided it wasn't up to scratch. I drove past at the weekend and it looks as if they've tidied up a bit.

Anyway, the agent was very much on our side, and there was no problem over the deposit. However, a couple of days after all this drama the agent rang me about another property they'd just got, and we moved in a couple of weeks ago! It's actually turned out rather well, as the 'new' house is really just what we always wanted - a farmhouse. The chickens will be installed soon, and then a couple of sheep to keep the front garden grass down.

So, all well except for getting our deposit back from the previous property - the agent involved couldn't be bothered to do a proper handover, but rang me after a week to say that he'd visited and it was 'the filthiest house he'd ever seen'.... The day after we moved, my father in law and I cleaned the place thoroughly, and it really was very clean. I caught the agent out in a couple of blatant lies, and suggested he put it all in writing. He was very blustery, but told me he'd already done so. He hasn't, nor has he paid back any of our deposit.

Here in NI we have a very good housing advice service, and they suspect that this is just an attempt to make money. I've now written giving him 10 days to pay; that'll be followed by an LBA and then Court. I've also stuck him with a claim for damages for breach of contract in respect of works that were not done. I suspect they'll want to settle before then, however.

[Hopeful1]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

I suspect they'll want to settle before then, however.

..if they know what's good for them

A farm house - how fantastic! I could certainly do with a few sheep in my back garden, but for now i shall struggle on with my delapidated old mower

[ScarletPimpernel]

Finally, more than a month after moving, I've heard from the letting agent. They have deducted from my deposit the cost of new carpets throughout the house, redecorating, and £200 for 'cleaning'. No prior walkround with me, no list of dilapidations, no quotes for any work - they've just sent invoices, which are all very vague. They've also sent some risible digital images which they claim are evidence - most are unrecognisable - they could be any piece of carpet, or any painted wall - and what's more, you can't see any marks on them! What maddens me is that we planned to have the carpets cleaned anyway (not that they particularly needed it), and the landlord told us not to bother. There is a distinct piscine aroma in all this.

The landlord left me a phone message saying that it was nothing to do with him, and everything was being handled by the agent; the agent is at pains to make clear that 'these deductions are at the express instruction of the landlord'.

I'm about to send an LBA for the deposit, and the claim for breach of contract for works not completed. I'm wondering, though, whether these should be dealt with as separate issues rather than being one claim if it goes to court. Any views?

[MrShed]

They should be one claim AFAIK - you could be seen as being needlessly litigious should you make seperate claims. Not 100% sure however.

[BADGER 69]

Cleaning costs are not chargeable.

[MrShed]

Originally Posted by BADGER 69

Cleaning costs are not chargeable.

An interesting broad statement - care to embellish?

[Esio Trot]

Originally Posted by BADGER 69

Cleaning costs are not chargeable.

Indeed, an unequivocal statement.

Pray tell me more so that I can amend all our in-house procedures.

[ScarletPimpernel]

The plot thickens...

Because of correspondence backlogs, I received abill for next years rates (we still have them in NI) for the property I've now moved out of. Having confirmed with the relevant office that I'm not liable, I noticed that the bill for next year is considerably lower than I paid last year. This seems odd, since rates never go down.

So, I queried it, and discovered that over the last year I paid £50 a month more than I should have. 'Why?', I asked. 'The usual reason would be to clear any arrears from last year's bill', they tell me. Apparently they sometimes do this if the arrears are for the last couple of payments. Of course, I had no arrears, so it seems that I may have been paying arrears owed by the landlord. The Rates people are double checking, but either was it seems I'll be getting a refund - and possibly some ammunition.

They also noticed that the property was valued on the basis of it being 'unfinished' - it seems that some people claim that building isn't complete ('what, like no gutters?' 'Yes, that sort of thing') in order to minimise their liability.

[Bookworm]

Only just came across this thread, just wanted to say good luck and make sure you let us know what happens. (and hope the new property gives you no trouble whatsoever!)

[Hopeful1]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

The plot thickens...

Because of correspondence backlogs, I received abill for next years rates (we still have them in NI) for the property I've now moved out of. Having confirmed with the relevant office that I'm not liable, I noticed that the bill for next year is considerably lower than I paid last year. This seems odd, since rates never go down.

So, I queried it, and discovered that over the last year I paid £50 a month more than I should have. 'Why?', I asked. 'The usual reason would be to clear any arrears from last year's bill', they tell me. Apparently they sometimes do this if the arrears are for the last couple of payments. Of course, I had no arrears, so it seems that I may have been paying arrears owed by the landlord. The Rates people are double checking, but either was it seems I'll be getting a refund - and possibly some ammunition.

They also noticed that the property was valued on the basis of it being 'unfinished' - it seems that some people claim that building isn't complete ('what, like no gutters?' 'Yes, that sort of thing') in order to minimise their liability.

What useful information! And a little extra cash to boot
Looking forward to the outcome.

[ScarletPimpernel]

It just gets better...

I'm aware that the landlord intends to sell the house (no doubt the reason why he wanted me to buy him nice new carpets), and that the letting agent will be dealing with the sale, and so clearly has an interest in it being as attractive as possible. Consequently, the agent will be keen to help the landlord rip me off.

Lessons learned when dealing with DCAs have proved most useful; whenever I deal with a 'new' DCA I always do some background research about the company, and I applied the same principle to the estate agent.

I discovered that whilst it presents itself as a partnership, it's actually a limited company - but it's stationery and website give no indication of its status, registration number and so on that is a statutory requirement.

Perhaps more seriously, I've also discovered that the agency is not registered with the Information Commissioner.

I suspect that if this goes to court, and it probably will as I know the landlord has no money, this info will be useful in proving the agent's cavalier approach.

[BADGER 69]

Hi.
Let me expand on my statement the cleaning cost are not chargeable.
I have just finished part of a degree course covering property law. The subject of what and what was not chargeable when vacating a property, and I suggested cleaning cost. My tutor, a barrister, said that cleaning cost, even if they are done commercially, are not chargeable.

[MrShed]

OK - still absolute rubbish.

I think I know what your tutor means, in that if you state in the tenancy agreement that a property must be "professionally cleaned", this clause is not enforceable. HOWEVER, it is entirely legal(and god knows how many case laws support this) to charge cleaning to return the property to the condition it was when the tenancy commenced.