re deposit

[kayadkaz]

Hi just a quick question really, i fled my house due to domestic violence and have now been made homless due to a arson attack on my rented property, which now needs to be gutted and renovated, can my landlord keep my deposit????

[Planner]

Need a little more information.

- The domestic violence isnt really relevant

- Is your landlord private/agency/local authority/housing association?

- Do you have an AST tenancy agreeemnt (Assured Shorthold Tenancy)

- Are you in England/wales

- when did the tenancy begin? and have you signed an additional one since (if the first one ran out?)

My initial instinct is "no your LL cant keep your deposit".

[kayadkaz]

it's a private landlord
tenancy started 16/5/05
havent signed a new tenancy since i have been there & i think it's a assured shorthold tenancy but will have to dig it out.
And yes im in england xxx

[Planner]

Thanks, was just clarifying the situatoion.

Did you know the arsonists this attack connected with some on going trouble? or something completley random?

The damage deposit is to be held for mitigatigating your damage to the property, not someone elses. In addition, the LL is not going to be able to tell what damage (if any) you had done to the property if its been completley gutted by fire.

Is the LL making noises hes not going to return it?

[perky2]

Most landlords insurance policies cover the tenant being moved into alternative accomodation following an insured incident.

He is within his rights to issue your 2-month notice, but his insurers will pay the rent on your new place for 2-months (less your current rent).

The landlord cannot keep your deposit, what damage will he state you caused and how can he prove this ??

[Planner]

Originally Posted by perky2

Most landlords insurance policies cover the tenant being moved into alternative accomodation following an insured incident.

He is within his rights to issue your 2-month notice, but his insurers will pay the rent on your new place for 2-months (less your current rent).

The landlord cannot keep your deposit, what damage will he state you caused and how can he prove this ??

I dont think this is accurate. The contract has been brought to an end because of the fire (ended via frustration). While you might be lucky to get a week or two out of the landlords insurers for temp accomodation, i would be v.surprised if you get more than that. You need to get to the council re temp accomodation. There is no requirement for you LL to end the tenancy via s.21 and no requirement for him to house you for 2 months imho.

[clavileno]

Originally Posted by Planner

I dont think this is accurate. The contract has been brought to an end because of the fire (ended via frustration). While you might be lucky to get a week or two out of the landlords insurers for temp accomodation, i would be v.surprised if you get more than that. You need to get to the council re temp accomodation. There is no requirement for you LL to end the tenancy via s.21 and no requirement for him to house you for 2 months imho.

It might be instructive to read this piece about uninhabitable premises.

The tenancy agreement is the first port of call for working out what is going on. Some will include clauses relating to, say, "unused" parts of the rent being returned to the tenant, some will not. Many will explicitly refer to suspension of the tenancy whilst repair works are carried out; some will not.

As the link above suggests, there may be an implied obligation on the landlord to provide housing, but I don't believe this has been tested in a higher court yet.

What is clear (and I've checked the Housing Act 198 is that there is no general provision for a tenancy to terminate simply because its effect is currently frustrated due to fire damage (or for any other like reason). In fact, there doesn't seem to be a provision to even allow this to happen by some other mechanism - the legislation was written in this way specifically to stop landlords from inventing reasons to evict tenants arbitrarily.

So, the tenancy is key. In order to advise kayadkaz accurately, that document needs to be present.

However, for the moment assuming it is similar to many other ASTs (available to view online courtesy of your favourite search engine), it may well specify or imply that the tenancy is suspended whilst repairs are carried out, whereupon it starts up again.

In that case, since the tenancy hasn't ended, the deposit isn't repayable - yet. Kayadkaz would then need to write to the landlord, asking him/her to terminate the tenancy by mutual agreement with effect from the date of the fire. Assuming he/she agrees to that, the deposit would become due.

Planner is quite right, if kayadkaz hasn't done anything to cause the fire or otherwise breached the terms of the tenancy, the deposit is due back. But only if the tenancy is over, which it may not be.

Why might a landlord not agree to terminate the tenancy early? Well, some landlords have insurance cover which pays them the lost rent whilst the property is being repaired, but the policy may not pay out where there is not currently a tenancy.

Kayadkaz can always apply to a court to have the tenancy formally determined (terminated) due to frustration in the interests, basically, of "fair play", so that the OP can get on with their life.

At the end of the day, kayadkaz, do you have the tenancy agreement? If not then you'll need to get hold of a copy - without it, this isn't yet clear.

[Aequitas]

The doctrine of frustration rarely applies to tenancies. It can only apply where the possibility of occupation at any time in the future is reduced to zero e.g. a property on a cliff edge dropping into the sea. It does not apply to damage by fire (or anything else) since there is the possibilty of the premises being rebuilt.

[clavileno]

Hi kayadkaz, any news? Do you have the tenancy agreement? If so, what does it say (if anything) about fire?