problem with housemate refusing to leave

drjazzz · 12th January 2008, 02:08

Hi,

This is a problem I haven't really come across before, and neither had the guy on Community Legal Services I spoke to!

I've been living a while with a girl who has always had problems and difficult behaviours but since we renewed our contract with a third new tenant she's just become impossible, stealing food, not doing any housework, using my phone without permission, being short of the money for bills (and said phone bill) etc etc

We asked her to leave a week ago giving her a month (we have six months or so left on the contract)

She has dug her heels in saying that she had no intention of going, or if she was, it was at her convenience. And when she came back drunk on Tuesday night she subjected us to three hours' of harassment chasing us around the house and arguing - quite crazy (she has been receiving treatment for depression).

My question is this - I know any of us can give two months' notice to end the tenancy - and that then holds for all. But we'd like her out sooner than that, especially as we have two friends looking for places to live right now. We now have the landlord on our side, so it is possible for any of us to simply ask to be released from the contract at the end of this rent period? And then for the landlord to agree, and then that would hold for all?

gizmo111 · 12th January 2008, 02:22

Some of the tenant experts will be along soon, but my first thought is whose name is the tenancy in?
And if the problem has been ongoing did you renew knowing her mental health problems?
Has she been receiving help?
Has she any family/friends to support her?
How bad is her chasing you around? Is it bad enough for police intervention? Is she a danger to you/housemates or herself?

What outcome are you looking for?

MilkTrayMan · 12th January 2008, 06:49

Hello drjazzz!

Just to clarify one or two things 1st...

Is this girl the one referred to in a previous Thread of yours?...
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...some-help.html

Have U ever had any romantic relationship with this girl?
What is the sex of this NEW 3rd sharing tenant?
Are U romantical involved with this 3rd tenant?

I don't mean to be too personal, am just trying to understand the underlying reasons behind the breakdown of the house/flat demographic relationships.

At 1st glance I would assume that she saw U as her saviour financially/emotionally + her crutch during her toubled times??

Perhaps this NEW 3rd tenant has put the spoke into her dreams/aspirations about your friendship + has threatened the supporting relationship that U once had with her??

Her recent behaviour MAY be a reaction to this, especially if she is aware that both U + this 'upsurper' are conspiring to have her evicted etc.
She probably feels alienated + confused.
Her whole world is being turned upside down by the one person who she felt that she could rely on the most + she may be scared of what the future has in store for her??

Perhaps U could diffuse the current situation by talking to her, befriending her once again, involving her + reassuring her??
...U may find that she calms down a bit if she feels less threatened of the great unknown?!

If all this fails, instead of trying to have HER removed, maybe U, the NEW 3rd tenant + some of your other friends might want to consider living together elsewhere??

...

MrShed · 12th January 2008, 09:34

When did you renew the contract, and for how long a fixed term? This question is absolutely key.

drjazzz · 12th January 2008, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrShed

When did you renew the contract, and for how long a fixed term? This question is absolutely key.

We renewed on 6th June for a year. It's an assured shorthold tenancy. There is a break clause which would require 2 months' notice.

But my question surely would apply to any joint tenancy. Can an agreement be made to be released from the current contract by mutual consent without all tenants signing up? For my understanding is that one tenant will speak for all. e.g. with the notice to quit, if one tenant gives it, it holds for the others whatever they may wish.

drjazzz · 12th January 2008, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilkTrayMan

Hello drjazzz!

Just to clarify one or two things 1st...

Is this girl the one referred to in a previous Thread of yours?...
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...some-help.html

Have U ever had any romantic relationship with this girl?
What is the sex of this NEW 3rd sharing tenant?
Are U romantical involved with this 3rd tenant?

I don't mean to be too personal, am just trying to understand the underlying reasons behind the breakdown of the house/flat demographic relationships.
...

Yes it's the same housemate that I've tried to help with money issues

No, female, no. I'd be far more sensitive and less sure of myself if there were yesses there. As it is, I've done so much to look after this girl but now realise it was just effort down the drain, and this girl is a user who takes no responsibility for herself. There is something of the newer girl upsetting the order of how they were before by making me realise I didn't have to put up with a housemate who would steal my food, lie, do no housework at all, and demand that her broken stereo have pride of place in the living room, etc etc. it's a long story and I don't really want to bore the forum with it, I'd just like to know the legalities of it all

drjazzz · 12th January 2008, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by gizmo111

Some of the tenant experts will be along soon, but my first thought is whose name is the tenancy in?
And if the problem has been ongoing did you renew knowing her mental health problems?
Has she been receiving help?
Has she any family/friends to support her?
How bad is her chasing you around? Is it bad enough for police intervention? Is she a danger to you/housemates or herself?

What outcome are you looking for?

It's a joint tenancy in our three names (no lead tenant). Yes I knew what she was like but was hoping she'd improve not get much worse. Plus I now see her behaviour differently as manipulative not just troubled. She has quite a few friends - she won't be homeless.

We very nearly called the police on the night in question. But that's been the only occasion for that and she seems to have calmed down since. I do still care about her - I don't want her to lose her job. I don't actually believe she is a danger to herself or others. At least I hope not.

MrShed · 13th January 2008, 11:05

Your question does not apply to any joint tenancy. In order to terminate a joint tenancy in a FIXED TERM, you must ALL give notice. It is only periodic tenancies that are ended by one tenant giving notice. This obviously applies, as you cannot do what you are saying. You would need the person in question to agree to the giving of notice.

drjazzz · 13th January 2008, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrShed

Your question does not apply to any joint tenancy. In order to terminate a joint tenancy in a FIXED TERM, you must ALL give notice. It is only periodic tenancies that are ended by one tenant giving notice. This obviously applies, as you cannot do what you are saying. You would need the person in question to agree to the giving of notice.

Are you sure about that? It's not the advice I've received so far.

Quote:

I am a joint tenant

If you are a joint tenant then you have the right to stay in your home. The other joint tenant has the same rights as you to stay in the home. Remember, if one joint tenant gives the correct notice to your landlord then the tenancy will most likely end for both of you, so if you think you want to stay in the property it is best to prevent this from happening.

Shelter: I am living with someone (cohabiting)

MrShed · 13th January 2008, 17:48

Absolutely 100%.

MrShed · 13th January 2008, 18:02

The vast majority of resources on this matter are regarding notice given in periodic tenancies. This is because there is usually no reason to give notice during the fixed term tenancy, as you are not entitled to leave prior to the end of the tenancy anyway, and you can leave at the end of the fixed term without giving notice. Therefore, the question of notice does not come into it, but the question of surrender of the tenancy does(which we are wrongly discussing as notice). The surrender of a tenancy requires the agreement of ALL parties.

If you want to confirm, contact PainSmith solicitors EDITED. They should be able to confirm this FOC, and are well respected solicitors in the field. They used to host an excellent document about joint tenancies, of which this was one. Unfortunately they have stopped hosting it on their site for some reason.

drjazzz · 14th January 2008, 14:15

thanks Mr S. It seems you are right. I've been misadvised on this question by the CAB.

MrShed · 14th January 2008, 14:20

No problem jazz. Hope you manage to resolve the issue!!

drjazzz · 28th January 2008, 17:07

update

Well turns out we got two months' notice - the landlord has asked us to leave!

The situation with the problem housemate just became intolerable. At the point where she started making threats to damage life and our property, I called the police and she was taken away for the night (they would have taken her to hospital to be assessed but there was an incident there so she was left with a friend). The police tacitly advised us that changing the locks wouldn't be a bad idea and we could call them if there was further trouble.

So, next day we go to the agents and their maintenance guy changes the lock for us. All well, and things turn out to be fine with the problem housemate as she now finds a place and comes around to pack up her stuff, and starts behaving reasonably.

However in the middle of it the management of the agency decide had decided that the situation was out of their control and they had to give notice!

We are very upset about this and are planning to appeal to the landlord directly if they will not withdraw it. Do we have a possible legal case? And if we stood our ground until told to leave by a court, how long would we have left?

flying_visitor · 28th January 2008, 18:21

Is it legal to lock someone out of their own home? I don't think you had a right to change the locks at all particularly if it isn't your house and the woman has joint tenant status with you.

MrShed · 28th January 2008, 18:24

You have no legal case unfortunately, as they are within their rights to evict you with no reason provided it is outside of the fixed term. I would say that you probably have around 3-4 months after the service of a 2 month notice until you are forcibly evicted - although 3 months would be quick. Bear in mind taht you will become liable for costs if you remain at the property outside of the 2 month notice.

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