Solicitor's letter - need advice please.

[Scudder]

Following on from my question regarding the my non-AST tenancy. That element of the tenancy is now clear and not an issue for me - thanks for all advice. However -

Update: On December 19th I received a warning letter from my landlord's solicitor asking me to vacate 'as per proper notice' on January 8th. The landlord is claiming not to have anywhere to live. The letter is stating I have breached my agreement. The letter only refers to the world 'notice' and doesn't use 'Section 21'. Is this significant?

Also - following a request in writing from the letting agent, I paid rent direct to the lettings agent's account on 24th Dec. as advised. I have paid 4 weeks. I have had no come back or return of money. The rent cleared on 24th December. Therefore on the one hand they've asked for rent and on the other they're saying get out!


Questions: 1. When I received the solicitor's letter I was still in the initial, fully paid up fixed term. Can they send me this kind of accusatory letter threatening court action when there has been no breach, everything is in the future and nothing has happened?
2. Should I respond, correcting them about the notice or leave well alone. I'm concerned about not even acknowledging the letter as maybe silence may be seen as agreement?
3. Is it certain that I am now in a periodic tenancy? The solicitor seems to have been misinformed about the notice and the tenancy, surely the firm would know their property/landlord and tenant law well?
4. The solicitor is saying that my landlord will be seeking damages against me for storage, re-location and legal fees. How realistic is this given I've actually done nothing wrong?
5. I'm unclear as to who is at fault - is it the letting agent or the landlord? The landlord seems to be unware of the LA's actions or is choosing to ignore them and do his own thing!
6. The LA has sent a letter to a my local housing advisor (not copying me into it) accusing me of deliberately misleading them, giving false information. I have not been given a copy of this letter as it wasn't written to me, but it's been read out to me. Who should I write to about this? I think it's a very serious matter to falsely accuse, in writing, to a third party.

Thanks in advance for everyone's advice.

[MrShed]

Hi again Scudder.

1) They can, but doesnt mean they can do anything about it.
2) I would be inclined to write them a letter, stating that you do not intend to vacate the property on the date stated(if indeed this is not your intention), and advise that if they wish to claim possession they must then do so through the proper legal channels. I would NOT be informing them of your legal reasons for doing so - this gives them the opportunity to correct the mistake earlier than they would otherwise do.
3) To be honest, I cant remember THAT much of your original thread. Can you give me a brief recap of the dates involved(start/end date of tenancy) and same for the notices that have been issued?
4) If it is shown in court that they have no right to evict you, then this is 100% unrealistic. If they CAN evict you, then you will become liable for the court costs of the eviction only. NOT legal costs, nor storage/re-location/other losses incurred.
5) Kind of the same as question 3 I'm afraid for me!
6) That really depends on the exact accusation, and the wording. However, depending on the wording, you may well have a libel claim - although you may struggle to prove damages. This kind of case would be pursued via small claims court.

Hope this helps so far!

[Scudder]

Originally Posted by MrShed

3) To be honest, I cant remember THAT much of your original thread. Can you give me a brief recap of the dates involved(start/end date of tenancy) and same for the notices that have been issued?


5) Kind of the same as question 3 I'm afraid for me!

Fixed term 6 months, all rent paid in advance. End date 28th December. Misdescribed as an AST, only just found out. LA and Landlord and now the solicitor as well appear to be still viewing it as an LA. I had an invalid Section 21 with wrong dates. LA is claiming I had second valid S21 taking me to January 8th as an end date. Not true. January 8th is a meaningless date brought in by the false claims of the LA.

The rental period I've just paid for is from December 29th. Money has been in the LAs account since 24th December. They have been in the office since then because they e-mailed me on the 28th giving me their bank details (rather late).

Yes thank you, but any more words of wisdom gratefully received...

[MrShed]

OK:

3) They have accepted rent from you. This is clearly a case where a periodic tenancy has arisen.

5) It doesnt really matter. From your eyes, the agent and landlord are the same legal entity. A claim from yourself in this situation would almost always be against the landlord, as that is who your agreement is with. If the agent was in fact at fault, then your claim would still be against the landlord, and the landlord would reciprocally claim against the agent.

[Scudder]

Thank you. I've got another e-mail from the Letting Agent now claiming that a director of the company has dealt with me (not true) and that there is photographic evidence that I've had notice! This is getting beyond a joke...

It was all immaterial because the notice wasn't appropriate anyway, but with every communication they are making a silly mistake into something far more serious. I really don't know how to proceed.

[Aequitas]

Originally Posted by Scudder

Update: On December 19th I received a warning letter from my landlord's solicitor asking me to vacate 'as per proper notice' on January 8th. The landlord is claiming not to have anywhere to live. The letter is stating I have breached my agreement. The letter only refers to the world 'notice' and doesn't use 'Section 21'. Is this significant?

No.

Originally Posted by Scudder

Also - following a request in writing from the letting agent, I paid rent direct to the lettings agent's account on 24th Dec. as advised. I have paid 4 weeks. I have had no come back or return of money. The rent cleared on 24th December. Therefore on the one hand they've asked for rent and on the other they're saying get out!

They clearly do not realise what they are doing!

Originally Posted by Scudder

Questions: 1. When I received the solicitor's letter I was still in the initial, fully paid up fixed term. Can they send me this kind of accusatory letter threatening court action when there has been no breach, everything is in the future and nothing has happened?

The short answer is "yes". However, don't let it worry you.

Originally Posted by Scudder

2. Should I respond, correcting them about the notice or leave well alone. I'm concerned about not even acknowledging the letter as maybe silence may be seen as agreement?

Not responding will not affect your position.

Originally Posted by Scudder

3. Is it certain that I am now in a periodic tenancy? The solicitor seems to have been misinformed about the notice and the tenancy, surely the firm would know their property/landlord and tenant law well?

There is no doubt that you are now in a periodic tenancy. Rent has been paid and accepted.

Originally Posted by Scudder

4. The solicitor is saying that my landlord will be seeking damages against me for storage, re-location and legal fees. How realistic is this given I've actually done nothing wrong?

At the present time you have no obligation to give up possession and so the landlord has no basis for a claim.

Originally Posted by Scudder

5. I'm unclear as to who is at fault - is it the letting agent or the landlord? The landlord seems to be unware of the LA's actions or is choosing to ignore them and do his own thing!

As Mr Shed suggests, for all practical purposes there is no difference between the two.

Originally Posted by Scudder

6. The LA has sent a letter to a my local housing advisor (not copying me into it) accusing me of deliberately misleading them, giving false information. I have not been given a copy of this letter as it wasn't written to me, but it's been read out to me. Who should I write to about this? I think it's a very serious matter to falsely accuse, in writing, to a third party.

This has no bearing on the status of your tenancy. Do not worry about it at the present time. You can deal with this later.

[Aequitas]

Originally Posted by Scudder

Thank you. I've got another e-mail from the Letting Agent now claiming that a director of the company has dealt with me (not true) and that there is photographic evidence that I've had notice! This is getting beyond a joke...

It was all immaterial because the notice wasn't appropriate anyway, but with every communication they are making a silly mistake into something far more serious. I really don't know how to proceed.

The agent is in a hole and digging himself deeper in it. This is not your problem.

I am getting the feeling that you feel the need to do something, and that is understandable. However, there is no need to do anything.

Any of the following may happen:

1. Nothing at all - in which case just keep paying rent on time.

2. Someone realises that the wrong notice has been served and serves the correct form of notice. If that happens, come back here and let us know exactly what the notice says.

3. Court proceedings are begun. If that happens come back and let us know exactly what the claim form says.

Some practical advice:

Sooner or later the landlord/his agent/his solicitor is going to get his act together and so your time at the property is limited - it is really just a question of time. So start looking for alternative accommodation.

The outcome of litigation is never certain. Whilst I am confident that the advice I have given is correct, there is no guarantee that the judge will see it that way.

[Scudder]

Thank you so much for your reply. However, last night I wrote a mail to the solicitor as response. I was very careful in my wording, but made it clear that I do not agree with the Landlord's position. I gave my circumstances and an explanation of my position, plus the history of the letting agent's claims.

She has come back to me via e-mail saying her firm wishes to speak to me. I am reluctant to speak to anyone unless it's in writing. The firm may be trying to save the Landlord money? I know...I doubt it.

The housing officer has written to the letting agent refuting the claim of deception and also putting them right about my tenancy position (they are telling them they believe it isn't an AST).

So very soon they will know that they have made another mistake. There is nothing I can do about it because my local authority insisted that they write the letter.

The housing officer still thinks that my 'rent' could be seen as 'Mesne profits'.

Could anyone clarify this term for for me please?

Thanks in advance.

[MrShed]

Mesne profits - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read this link. Did the letter request a payment for rent? IE did it use the word "rent"?

[Scudder]

Hello - thanks for replying.

Yes they did mention the word 'rent', twice. I looked at the link at it appears that Mesne profits are something the landlord can claim alongside a court order.

The solicitor phoned me obviously fishing, I may have said too much. He asked if I could send him all the correspondence between myself, the landlord and letting agent. I advised that surely this couldn't be correct, given confidentiality. I said that he should get the information from the landlord.

I have a feeling that the solicitor knows exactly what the score is but is choosing not to tell me about the mistake re the AST. I don't know what could be gained by doing this, unless it is to go through with the court order without telling me.


He wrote everything I said....

What can I expect and is there anyway that I have not created a statutory tenancy by paying money into the letting agent's account? Can they give me the money back saying they don't want it now?

[MrShed]

1) Its been a while since ive dealt with mesne profits, but I think it would be nigh on impossible for the landlord to claim they were mesne profits without declaring so at the time of request and/or handover of money.

2) They cannot just "change their mind". They have entered into a contract by requesting money and subsequently accepting the money.

Originally Posted by Scudder

Hello - thanks for replying.

Yes they did mention the word 'rent', twice. I looked at the link at it appears that Mesne profits are something the landlord can claim alongside a court order.

The solicitor phoned me obviously fishing, I may have said too much. He asked if I could send him all the correspondence between myself, the landlord and letting agent. I advised that surely this couldn't be correct, given confidentiality. I said that he should get the information from the landlord.

I have a feeling that the solicitor knows exactly what the score is but is choosing not to tell me about the mistake re the AST. I don't know what could be gained by doing this, unless it is to go through with the court order without telling me.


He wrote everything I said....

What can I expect and is there anyway that I have not created a statutory tenancy by paying money into the letting agent's account? Can they give me the money back saying they don't want it now?

[Scudder]

Update and question - now pretty nervous....
1) LLs solicitor has written to me again following my Housing officer's letter telling them I did not have an AST. They have left out all mention of their previous letter declaring 'proper notice has been served' and are now agreeing that I don't have an AST and saying that I didn't need to be served notice. The solicitor is now implying that it was the LAs fault re the mistaken SEction 21 and that the LL has always known no notice was required! Obviously not the case. They go on to say that the LL had chosen not to exercise their right to possession provided I pay a daily sum for the use of the property!

2) The letter says I have not vacated nor have I made any payments. This is completely untrue as they requested 'rent' and I paid it in advance on 24th December and it cleared the same day.

3) They are saying I should vacate on 20th January (why that date?) or they will issue proceedings without further notice. If they do, they will seek a sum to reflect their legal costs and expenses which will exceed £2000.00 in addition to a daily rate.

4) The Lettings Agent is refusing to enter into any more correspondence, even though my complaint about them is a different issue and not to do with the landlord. They are referring me to the LLs solicitor without any response about the fact they made a error with the TA, the Section 21 and also made defamatory statements in writing to the local authority.

5) My local housing officer is saying that even though rent was requested and paid, a court is likely to think that there is not a new tenancy.


My LL had six months rent in advance, was a poor landlord, there were issues throughout the tenancy regarding lack of gas certificate, electrics failing, poor repairs, etc, then this farce with the agreement and Section 21, etc etc. I have been a responsible tenant, fully paid up to date and still everyone seems to be telling me I have absolutely no real rights (aside of the court telling me to leave, which is hardly a right or protection - just a delay) and that it appears the LL and LA can get away with what they've said and done!

I really don't know what to do. I don't know how to phrase a letter saying I've paid rent, when clearly the LLs solicitor is trying to make a case for mesne profits (I presume).

How can I get this Tenancy stuff sorted out? Am I in a new tenancy as was earlier suggested or is it something else?

It also will effect my deposit no doubt. What do I do about that money? If I am not in a new tenancy, surely they have to give it back as it has been in a TDS?

Lots of questions I know - this problem has been described to me as a 'pile of spaghetti'

[MrShed]

Havent got time to put together a full answer I'm afraid. However, just to put your mind at ease somewhat, regardless of the outcome you are not liable for the ll's legal costs.

[Aequitas]

I missed your last post. Do you still need comments on it?

[Scudder]

Hello there - yes I do still need advice. I'm a bit nervous about giving too much detail as recently on this forum another new poster asked a series of questions that sounded very familiar! My situation is quite unusual and I wondered how many people wo