landlord took deposit without having me sign contract

[dtakias]

hi

On the 1st of september I moved into a 3 bedroom house. The landlord took my first rent and a deposit but despite giving me contract papers he never asked me or made me signed them. He never put his signature as well on the contract. Since the rest of the people in that house were not what I expected I had to move out. I informed my landlord 4days before start of November and he agreed that I could go. So I left the house 3 days before November. Now he is refusing to give me my deposit back despite I had paid rent until the end of October. Is there a way to force him to give me my deposit back? Is it legal that he took my deposit without having me sign a contract?

thank you in advance!

[demon_x_slash]

Your deposit should have been put into one of three Tenancy Deposit Schemes. You will need to raise a court claim to retrieve this money; the process for doing so is elaborated upon in the main forum's FAQs. You could also buy/borrow this book, which deals with the Small Claims Court.

The post is specifically for bank charges but the process is the same. You need to write to the landlord requesting the return of the money first, giving him time to respond. This is known as your preliminary letter. If he fails to respond within the time limit you have given him, another letter follows, warning that court action is the next step and giving him more time to respond. If you hear nothing, then enter a claim against him for the amount.

[dtakias]

ok, thank you.

So how do i know that he did not use one of three Tenancy Deposit Schemes? Is that because he never made me sign a contract?

[demon_x_slash]

If he had, you would have received paperwork for it in the post. You would still have had a valid tenancy without the contract, as you offered rent and he accepted it, but it's now a legal requirement for the tenancy to be in one of these schemes. The schemes are described in this sticky; you should see this link for more help in getting it back.

[Planner]

Originally Posted by demon_x_slash

Your deposit should have been put into one of three Tenancy Deposit Schemes. You will need to raise a court claim to retrieve this money; the process for doing so is elaborated upon in the main forum's FAQs. You could also buy/borrow this book, which deals with the Small Claims Court.

The post is specifically for bank charges but the process is the same. You need to write to the landlord requesting the return of the money first, giving him time to respond. This is known as your preliminary letter. If he fails to respond within the time limit you have given him, another letter follows, warning that court action is the next step and giving him more time to respond. If you hear nothing, then enter a claim against him for the amount.

Demon, good advice although I would like to point out that I dont think that the above sticky on reclaiming bank charges is in fact the appropriate route for TDS claims for various reasons. I dont think we should be using these FAQ as a guide for TDS claims at this stage. A better approach would be to respond on a case to case basis as they are posted without refering to stickys/FAQ on claims. That way we can gaive up-to-date infomration as the situation with TDS court claims develops.

[demon_x_slash]

I only used the FAQs for, as I said, an idea about the claim process. The main info for the OP to start off with is in the sticky about deposit deductions.

[Planner]

Demon, my point was that the FAQ isnt the correct claim process to be used in respect of TDS, so shouldnt be quoted (even the "general idea" of it is ,apparently, inacurate in respect of TDS claims). The rest of the advice I have no argument with.

[Esio Trot]

Originally Posted by Planner

Demon, my point was that the FAQ isn't the correct claim process to be used in respect of TDS, so shouldn't be quoted (even the "general idea" of it is ,apparently, inaccurate in respect of TDS claims). The rest of the advice I have no argument with.

Agreed.

Latest advice on TDS claims are that the N208 claim route is the appropriate one - with a cost to file £150

[Planner]

Certainly is. Again I have only seen this suggested in one place and needs to be treated with the same amount of caution as the N1 route that we all "thought" was possibly the correct route. I would again emphasis that anyone submitting a claim for TDS via N1/N208 (Part 8 ) needs to seek legal advice that this is the corrrect route, as we DONT KNOW at present.

Incidently, I have seen £120 and £150 "quoted" as the cost of N208.

[Joa]

Guys, if the TDS sticky is wrong or misleading, we need to ask for a Mod to edit it. We must not allow for inaccurate info to sit up there. Can someone suggest appropriate amendment and contact Mods by clicking on the Report Post button .

[Planner]

The TDS sticky is fine. It was the particular reference to the Court Procedure FAQ on the main forurm site for reclaiming bank charges which shouldnt be quoted as the route for TDS claims at this stage.

[Ed999]

If the landlord never granted a tenancy agreement, there is no legal basis for the original poster to make any claim under the Tenancy Deposit Scheme.

It may be a matter of fraud, or of theft, and in either case is best dealt with by the police.



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[andylondonuk]

Ed999, I'm certainly no expert, but I always thought that if no contract exists between landlord and tenant, if rent is offered and accepted, a statutory periodic Assured Shorthold Tenancy is created? I may of course be completely wrong. But if I'm correct, surely the TDS would apply in the same way?

[Joa]

I have to agree with andylondonuk; tenancy was created by landlord accepting rent payments and allowing possession. Therefore there is no doubt in my mind that TDS applies.

[demon_x_slash]

That's what I thought too - I asked the same question of Ed this morning on another thread. It will be interesting to hear the reply.

[Planner]

Originally Posted by demon_x_slash

That's what I thought too - I asked the same question of Ed this morning on another thread. It will be interesting to hear the reply.

Then I think your in for a long wait. Its not Eds style to lower himself to answer an actual question put to him!

Prove im wrong Ed.

[Esio Trot]

Originally Posted by Joa

I have to agree with andylondonuk; tenancy was created by landlord accepting rent payments and allowing possession. Therefore there is no doubt in my mind that TDS applies.

I agree.

There are as I understand the law three elements:

1. Offer and Acceptance: In this case clearly the landlord offered and the OP accepted - in the absence of documentation this was creating in effect a verbal tenancy.
2. Consideration: The OP paid rent and deposit to the landlord
3. Occupation: The OP moved in - albeit for a short time

One further point needs some clarification, as it is only implied at present: Is the landlord living-in, or does he live elsewhere. If he lives in, then there cannot be a tenancy (excluded in the Housing Act); if elsewhere, then all the above applies.

The landlord probably feels that the deposit is his: the Protection from Eviction Act requires both the landlord and tenant to give a minimum of 4 weeks notice before a rent day. The OP only told the landlord 4 days before her rent day, thus the deposit is used in lieu of notice.

Under the old rules this would be the end of the matter. However, provided that she did have an AST, the OP has a good chance of getting both her deposit and 3 times this as penalty off the landlord due to the failure to protect.

There are many landlords who are going to be hit by this - especially as knowledge of the "free" money gets around. I know of one chap who has moved around a bit. The landlord was hesitant about granting a tenancy, but wanted the place let as he was going for 2 weeks holiday in two days time. The chap offered 2 months rent as deposit (£1,200), could move in next day and so the landlord agreed to the tenancy. The landlord didn't protect the deposit until almost 4 weeks into the tenancy. The tenant has already told me that he is only staying 6 months and once he leaves he is going to issue proceedings: "£3,600 isn't to be sniffed at. Ya get me drift? 14 days is 14 days, innit".