Please Help....

[privatetenant]

Hi, My Partner, 22 month old baby and myself moved into a new property on 15th October on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy. I explained to the Landlady the day before that I was having problems obtaining the deposit and 1 months rent in advance as it was in a savings account that I was having trouble gaining access to(odd account and long story) I kept getting told that I would receive the money only to then be told that they were having 'administrative' problems!?!? and she was still happy to sign the Tenancy Agreement.
Up to this point the Landlady has been understanding to a point which I can not blame her for. Due to the delay in obtaining the money I have twice offered to pay her part towards the money and on both occasions she has opted to wait.
She now wishes to wait no longer and is coming over with her husband at the weekend for the money or to issue notice(I'm guessing section 8 as the fixed term is still running).
I will have the next rent for her on the due date which is Monday 16th so officially I will not be 2 months in arrears with the rent(This is the first question: the rent in advance and deposit equals 2 months rent but as half of it is the deposit am I right in thinking she can not issue notice on these grounds?)
This leaves me confused as to what grounds she can or will use as I think it is unlikely that I will have this situation resolved by the weekend.
The other point is, and I understand that she does not have to accept, but do I put myself in a better situation in the event that she does decide to proceed and ultimately go to court if I attempt to make some sort of payment arrangement with her to pay the money over the course of say 2 months?

Any help would be gratefully received.

[MrShed]

Correct on your first question.

Second question, she will not be able to evict(on a simplistic level anyway) when you are not 2 months in arrears. There are other grounds, but they are discretionary, and unlikely to succeed in this situation.

Question 3, yes it would

[privatetenant]

Thank you very much for the information. That is what I, sort of, thought would be the answer after reading a bucket load of information over the last week.
Takes a big weight of my shoulders.

Cheers

[Ed999]

It is incorrect to say that you cannot be evicted.

You are in breach of a provision in the tenancy agreement, and you can therefore be evicted under section 8 of the Housing Act 1988, on ground 12.

Read this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-eviction.html

The landlord has to obtain a court order before he can evict you. It may take him two months or more to get the necessary court order, because it can only be granted at a court hearing, after any representations from you.



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[MrShed]

Agreed Ed - did you just read the first quarter of my sentence, then stop reading in order to disagree with me?

[privatetenant]

Sorry I maybe should have made myself clearer but I omitted to say that I had researched and read everything I could on this subject over the last two days(including your post Ed) and all I wanted was a bit of clarification I was and am still well aware that there are in fact several grounds that she could choose to serve me notice on and Ground 12 is only 1 of them another of them being Ground 10.
My main point was can she serve me notice on Ground 8 which is the only ground upon which a 'mandatory possession order' can be given by the court.
The other Grounds, as I understand it, are discretionary and unlikely to result in eviction in this instance.

[Ed999]

If you pay rent monthly, you can only be evicted on Ground 8 if the rent is more than two months in arrears both (a) at the time when the landlord gave the section 8 notice and (b) at the date of the court hearing.

If you allow the rent to become 2 months in arrears, you risk a notice under Ground 8 being served on you.

If you are asking whether non-payment of the deposit means you are already 2 months in arrears, then in my opinion it probably does not mean that. If the tenancy is not yet 2 months along, you can't yet be 2 months in arrears.

I suggest you also worry about being evicted on Ground 11 and on Ground 12. Both of which could easily end up applying to you, because Ground 12 is probably wide enough to cover non-payment of the deposit.

It is correct to say that Ground 8 is the only mandatory ground, yes.

It is incorrect to say that you cannot be evicted on a discretionary ground.

The fact that the court has a discretion does not prevent it evicting you. The judge will look at the facts of the case, and will then decide whether to evict you. Some of these decisions go in favour of the tenant, and some of them don't. It depends on inscrutable factors. It is unpredictable.

Your chances of avoiding eviction are, in my opinion, going to be slim if the landlord walks into court relying on three seperate non-mandatory grounds. One Ground you could talk your way out of, perhaps, but not three. Just my opinion.

So it is worth keeping an eye on Ground 11. A very dangerous Ground, because (unlike most of the others) it can't be rectified.



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[MrShed]

I am fairly sure that the word that has been used is "unlikely".

[privatetenant]

Thanks MrShed for pointing out that the word 'unlikely' had been used.

Ed I appreciate that there will be many different points of view on this subject, some positive and some negative. I accept I am only a layman when it comes to the law but I am educated in many other areas and I enjoy reading and researching a great many subjects. I have enjoyed these forums and found them a great source of information. I understand that you err on the negative side and fully appreciate your right to do that. After reading all of the items and other items on other websites I have formed my own opinions too.

I believe that because the possible breach of not paying the deposit was present when the tenancy agreement was signed and witnessed and at this time the Landlady was fully aware of this possible breach then she would have problems using Ground 12 due to her having agreed this possible breach by allowing the tenancy to proceed.

I also believe, and this was actually in my first post, that because I have on 2 occasions already offered to pay some money to her but SHE CHOSE to decline the offers and wait and that I am prepared to make an arrangement to pay the money over a couple of months then she would also have problems using Ground 11 because I have not 'persistently delayed paying rent' but have in fact offered to pay her some of the money owed on more than one occasion.

Again I stress that these are my own opinions after trawling through more information than anyone can expect to digest in 2 days and I am sure that you have your own opinions.

I also feel the need to point out that while you are technically correct on the wording and definition of 'Ground 8' it should also be pointed out that the Landlord/lady can not decline any offer of payment either in full or part towards the rent and if this then brings the total arrears to less than 2 months(in the case of monthly payments) then the proceedings MUST be stopped unless other grounds have also been cited in the original notice.

I also wish to point out that while you are again, technically, correct that a Judge can still evict on discretionary grounds they will only do so if it is 'reasonable to do so' and I would suggest that it would take a particularly hard nosed Judge to do so when a very young child is involved and if all other payments and items pertaining to the tenancy are in order. Even then I think you would have to catch him on a very bad day.

Again I stress that these are only my opinions and, of course, anything can and normally does happen. I also feel the need to reiterate that I have purposely used the word 'problem' and not 'definately could not' as, in my opinion, I think she would be in murky water using either Ground 11 or 12.

[MrShed]

I fully agree with your points there PT. I do however think that it is right(as not all posters have researched as much as you ) to point out that there are other possible grounds for possession than the mandatory 2 month arrears ground, if for nothing else for completeness sake in a legal aspect - and also if anyone else reads the thread at a later date. However, in a realistic real world aspect, I think you are 100% correct that the chances of you being evicted are, as said above, "unlikely"