Letting Agent/Landlord is Obstructive & Excessive

[bananahammock]

Hi everyone, I`m a complete newbie to the site and i`m having a nightmare with a letting agent and landlord.
Myself, partner and 2 daughters moved into a brand new house as the first tenants in April 2006. We looked after the property to such a high standard that the property inspector only inspected on 1 occasion out of the 3 that they attended.
When we moved into the property we scuffed a wall accidentally and unavoidably with our furniture and requested permission to paint and paint colour from the letting agent in order to touch it up but we were never contacted back in relation to this so we left it and ignored it.

We were never informed that if we were to put curtain rails/pictures & shelves up that this would endanger the return of out deposit but after leaving the property in September to move into our first bought home together we have been charged £409.50 of our £635.00 much relied upon deposit and told that this is allowing 30% discount for the 18months that we lived in the property.

We have made numerous calls to the agent to try and reach a resolve which would save our deposit and prevent the financial strain and hardship that this has caused us.

We offered to go in and fill the holes from the curtain rails etc and paint over but this was refused.
We asked for a second quote and we were never contacted with anything.
We offered £100 towards the cost of the landlord filling the small holes and painting them but this was ignored.
We wrote an e mail and asked the agent to provide us with the contact details of the landlord but this has also been ignored and alledgedly never received. This was after being told in a phone call to put our request in writting for Landlords details and the agent said we could expect a response in 21 days.

We received no response, just a letter saying that we had £409.40 deducted for decorating with a cheque for the balance.

I wrote a letter detailing everything to the agent and yesterday I received a response, again without the contact details of the Landlord and informing us that if we wish to commence with court proceedings (as I stated in the letter to them) "the Landlord will reserve his right to a counter claim to indicate full cost of the decor works, solicitor and agent costs together with court fees and all other costs awarded by the court".

The tenancy agreement states not to decorate without consent or full costs of re decoration would apply.
It also states that the property should be handed back in the same condition as it wAs at the beginning except reasonable wear.

I apologise for the length of my rant.
We are desperate for any advice on this matter and feel persecuted for being good tenants who were never a day late with rent and kept the property immaculate.
We have no photographic evidence either.

Can anyone please help.

Many thanks and kindest regards

[Ed999]

Read this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...eductions.html

[bananahammock]

Cheers Ed999, the advice on the site is brilliant.
Ive spent the last few hours preparing to move to court proceedings.

Much appreciated

[Ed999]

I would like to add one further observation.

Your claim for the return of the deposit will fail if you are in breach of any of the provisions of the tenancy agreement.

In my opinion, the facts you have stated establish that you have carried out alterations to the property.

If the tenancy agreement bans you from making alterations to the property, then what you have done will amount to a breach of contract, and you will be liable for the cost of remedying the breach.



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[GlasweJen]

do curtain rails really count as alterations? What's the OP to do when she wants to block a view into her property?

[Ed999]

Originally Posted by Jenschnifer

do curtain rails really count as alterations? What's the OP to do when she wants to block a view into her property?

IMHO, an alteration is an alteration. If the o/p wanted to make alterations to the property, then he had two courses open to him -

1. To provide for that, by agreement with the landlord, in the tenancy agreement.

2. To obtain written permission from the landlord before carrying out the alterations.

If the tenant breaches the provisions of the contract, he must expect to be sued for the breach.



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[Esio Trot]

Should the matter ever go to court, I think the landlord would be hard pressed to win.

To provide a property without rails on which to hang curtains forces the tenant to "damage" the property in order to install what I would call a necessity. After all, to occupy a property without curtains would do nothing for modesty if one went about the dwelling in undergarments - or even eau-naturelle - as I do on occasions (especially hot weather).

If the landlord did not want "damage" s/he should have provided the means on which to hang curtains.

[Joa]

even eau-naturelle - as I do on occasions

eeeeeeeew :o too much info!

[GlasweJen]

Well I was thinking on the same lines Eiso, surely you have a right to not be gawked at when you're getting dressed in the morning?

[Ed999]

You are overlooking the fact that the original poster tells us that he "put curtain rails/pictures & shelves up", and my comments are based on those facts.

Thus the o/p did not merely put up curtain rails. Also, the o/p could have hung curtains using the existing rails, but neglects to mention this.

If the tenant does not comply with the terms of the tenancy agreement he must pay for the cost of remedying his breach. The only issue here is what that cost is.

Some guidance might be obtained from this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...eductions.html



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[bananahammock]

Thanks for this observation, its always really helpful to get the views of others, it does state in my agreement that I, the tenant, have the right to enjoy the property without any interuption.
It would be impossible to enjoy living in any property while being exposed to the rest of the street. Also, personal possessions ie, pictures etc surely cant be expected to be left in boxes when a great deal of money is being paid to live in a house as though it is a home.
This would`nt be enjoyable living, this would merely be existing.

We had 3 property inspections carried out by the letting agent and no warnings were given re curtains, shelfs, pictures.
Infact, 2 out of the 3 occasions they stated they didnt want to view the rooms as they could tell the property was immaculate and well looked after.
Also, the agreement states that decorating within the property would result in full redecoration costs to the tenant, catch 22, your damned if you do and damned if you dont.

Our 3rd agreement commenced on the 1st April 2007 whereby the deposit was carried over from previous agreements on the property, does this mean that we are protected by the new legislation which came into force in April 2007 to protect tenants from incidents such as this?

Its all very complicated.

Originally Posted by Ed999

I would like to add one further observation.

Your claim for the return of the deposit will fail if you are in breach of any of the provisions of the tenancy agreement.

In my opinion, the facts you have stated establish that you have carried out alterations to the property.

If the tenancy agreement bans you from making alterations to the property, then what you have done will amount to a breach of contract, and you will be liable for the cost of remedying the breach.



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[bananahammock]

I also had to go eau-naturelle for a long time after having a couple of major operations and I think I may have been arrested if I had been unable to retain my modesty through having my curtains drawn.

Originally Posted by Esio Trot

Should the matter ever go to court, I think the landlord would be hard pressed to win.

To provide a property without rails on which to hang curtains forces the tenant to "damage" the property in order to install what I would call a necessity. After all, to occupy a property without curtains would do nothing for modesty if one went about the dwelling in undergarments - or even eau-naturelle - as I do on occasions (especially hot weather).

If the landlord did not want "damage" s/he should have provided the means on which to hang curtains.

[bananahammock]

I didnt actually neglect to mention anything.
There were no existing rails on which to hang my curtains.
Nor were there existing plugs in the walls in order to attach a shelf or other.
I think there is a a huge difference between "Damage" and "Reasonable Wear", especially when the tenants have respectfully looked after the property.
So many landlords who have been able to behave like this prior to the new deposit scheme coming into force April 07 and have been allowed to use deposits as redecoration funds.
It is unacceptable and unfair to good law abiding tenants.

Originally Posted by Ed999

You are overlooking the fact that the original poster tells us that he "put curtain rails/pictures & shelves up", and my comments are based on those facts.

Thus the o/p did not merely put up curtain rails. Also, the o/p could have hung curtains using the existing rails, but neglects to mention this.

If the tenant does not comply with the terms of the tenancy agreement he must pay for the cost of remedying his breach. The only issue here is what that cost is.

Some guidance might be obtained from this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...eductions.html



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[Ed999]

It's clear on the facts that you have carried out alterations to the property.

As the tenancy agreement prohibits this, you are in breach of contract. The court will therefore award compensation to the landlord.

Your best course of action is probably to try to show that the cost of remedying the breach, as claimed by the landlord, is unreasonably high. The thread which I've refered you to explains some legal factors the court will consider.

Arguing that what you have done was not a breach of contract is unlikely to be successful, in the circumstances that you've outlined. In my opinion, the expression "fair wear and tear" is not capable of stretching so far as to cover intentional alterations or intentional damage.

It is not a question of "damage". The relevent clause in the tenancy agreement addresses alterations, not damage.



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[GlasweJen]

Isn't it shameless indecency (an arrestable offence) to walk about naked where people can see you? I was led to understand that this meant even within the home if due care isn't taken to shield yourself from the outside world. Worse still what if the OP were married or lived (and slept) with a partner. God knows what the neighbours would have seen! Surely it is unreasonable to let out a property without curtain rails or anything similar (as from my understanding shutters and blinds also require screws to be fitted)?

Just read the OP and she does indeed have a partner and children, surely someone has to see sense here, the property was only altered to allow privacy for the family, isn't that a right?

[MrShed]

Guys I never usually do this - but I am going to side with Ed. The curtain rails are disputable. The shelving is not, so there are clear "alterations" to the property. Out of interest, in which locations were the curtain rails fitted? I feel this is important. However, a property is to a certain extent let "as is". This is not a matter like gas safety certificates where there is a legal obligation - there is NO legal obligation to provide curtains or curtain rails, and this really should have been picked up on upon viewing the property. Was the property let furnished or unfurnished?

I also think that there is some undue concentration on the "right" to have privacy etc. There clearly is, and IMO the OP was entitled to put up curtain rails etc. However, she is still obligated to pay the financial cost of restoring the property to its initial condition.

Also did you sign a fully detailed inventory upon moving in? Has the landlord given a detailed breakdown of costs - ie which area cost what to decorate etc?