Temporary vacant property H.B./ C.T.

[James 01]

Hi
I rent out a flat and a tenant has moved out due to a problem with the electricity bill with the previous tenant. The previous tenant changed the meter from a credit meter to a key meter but is now changed back to a key meter. There are arrears of £700.00 so any credit is used to clear the arrears. The rent I was receiving from the Housing Benefit has ceased and now I receive Council Tax bills. The tenant wants to move back but she cannot due to the arears and there is a problem with the immersion heater so there is no hot water. I am not getting very far with Southern Electric who were initially advised of this in June 2007.
I understand Housing Benefit can be paid in some situations where a property is temporary vacant. I cannot find anywhere what confirms if it can be paid in this situation i.e. where someone has to move out because they cannot live there. I wrote to the Housing Benefit stating the full details but all I received was a reply saying it has ceased because she has left the property. Are there any opinions as to whether the Housing Benefit can be paid during this temporary period and if the Council Tax is due? The only other action I may have to consider is some form of compensation from Southern Electric.
I would be grateful for any opinions.
Thanks

[MrShed]

HB - I cant imagine why it would be payable, cant think of any situation where it should be.
CT - will depend on the local authority.

Electric - ludicrous that SE are holding someone completely seperate responsible for the arrears. I would be speaking to them in very strong terms, they have no right to do what they are doing. Presumably you have informed them that the current resident tenant is not the account holder with arrears?

[Ed999]

Housing Benefit - Not payable to you, since it is paid to the former tenant, who no longer rents the property.

Council Tax - Payable by you, as the owner of the property. You might be eligible to pay a reduced amount while the property is empty - contact the District Council and ask.

Electricity - The debt attaches to the premises, so you will have to pay it. If your tenancy agreement made the tenant liable for payment of the electric bills, sue the former tenant to recover your outlay from the tenant.



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[Joa]

Originally Posted by Ed999

Electricity - The debt attaches to the premises, so you will have to pay it. If your tenancy agreement made the tenant liable for payment of the electric bills, sue the former tenant to recover your outlay from the tenant.

There was a nice big thread going on here a while ago about utility debts being a personal responsibility, not "attached" to the address. I will try to look for it.

[MrShed]

Agreed - they have no liability to pay the bills - only the original tenant has that liability. It is not attached to the premises in any way. You wouldnt expect to have to pay a previous residents credit card bill would you Ed? No difference in law between the two.

[Joa]

demon was tearing his hair out about it here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lls#post888000
and here
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lls#post894858

amd Mr Shed confirms it here
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lls#post771945

[demon_x_slash]

I seem to have acquired an appendage Utility bills are in a person's name, and not linked to an address any more - the OFT is very clear on it's stance when it comes to collecting debts from those not liable.

[Joa]

Acquired? I thought you already had one....

[demon_x_slash]

He's at work atm, dear; I do let him out once in a while

[Ed999]

Originally Posted by Joa

demon was tearing his hair out about it here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lls#post888000
and here
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lls#post894858

amd Mr Shed confirms it here
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lls#post771945

In none of the threads which you've specified has any of the posters cited any legal authority for their opinions.

Electricity, Gas, Water Rates and Council Tax are statutory debts, not contract debts; and special statutory rules apply to them.

The statutory undertakers are entitled by law to disconnect the property for non-payment. The owner of the property is thus effectively made liable for the bills.

Where he is a landlord, not the ocupier, he will naturally ensure that the tenancy agreement makes the tenant liable to him for any arrears on the utility bills, in order that he may sue the tenant if arrears are run up.

As an example, see the Gas Act 1986, schedule 2B, paragraph 7 (recovery of gas charges) : Gas Act 1986 (c. 44) - Statute Law Database (as substituted by the Gas Act 1995, and as amended in 2000).

IMHO, this appears to make the owner of the premises a "consumer" (as defined in the schedule), and thus liable to disconnection for non-payment of gas supplied to his premises. The upshot of which is that as he owns the property, the debt is his problem.



Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[Joa]

Originally Posted by demon_x_slash

He's at work atm, dear; I do let him out once in a while

Jaysus! damn unisex nicknames! LOL

[MrShed]

“consumer ” means a person who is supplied with gas conveyed to particular premises (in this Schedule referred to as his premises) by a public gas transporter;

In what way does that read to be the owner! The consumer is the person "supplied with gas to a particular premises". The landlord/owner has certainly not been supplied with the gas, as he is neither resident nor in a position to "consume"(or use) the gas.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

I would just like to add based on my personal views and experience:

1.Council Tax - The owner would be liable if the property became empty.You would either have a 6 month exemption period.The full amount would then apply thereafter or a 50% reduction on the full amount from day one.

2.Water Bill - The owner would be liable.The only way not to pay this bill would be by requesting to have the mains cut off.

3.Electricity & Gas - Liability of the tenants/persons using these utilities.No owner would become liable to pay a previous tenant's bills.There would be liabilty if and only he/she decided to reside in the property or planned to keep the property vacant for a while for upgrading or improving.

4.Regarding Housing Benefit being paid when the property is empty,the only possible scenario would be if the tenant became imprisoned and would need a property upon his/her release from prison.However,this specific case is slightly different from what James01 has stated.

5.Regarding the electricity meter problem James01 needs to have some firm words with Southern Electric.It does work.
How do I know?
Been there,got the t-shirt and the rest is history!

I hope this helps.

[Ed999]

Originally Posted by MrShed

In what way does that read to be the owner! The consumer is the person "supplied with gas to a particular premises". The landlord/owner has certainly not been supplied with the gas, as he is neither resident nor in a position to "consume"(or use) the gas.

But is there any decided case in which a court has held this to be so? And is this also the case with electricity, which is what the o/p was asking about?

On a practical level, the o/p might contact the electricity company and ask for written confirmation that the freeholder is not liable for the former tenant's debt.

[MrShed]

OK on the flip side Ed, is there any decided case which backs up your point of view? And therefore contradicts "common sense" and basic reading of the law you yourself quoted?