Awkward situation

[Jumble Jumble]

First a brief history.

We were all set to move into this flat on 5th August 2006. Two weeks before this date, we were informed that the redecoration and carpeting that was being done was going to take longer, and that we would not be able to move in until the 8th. This was a problem but we managed to sort it out.

We went to sign contracts and get keys on the 5th, on condition that we would not move in until the 8th. The guy at the agent assured us that we would get a full year's use of the flat. However, it appears that we signed a year contract from the 5th.

We moved in on the 8th. The decorators had been living in the flat and it was disgusting - urine on and around the toilets, old food packets in the kitchen. Also they had splashed white paint all over the wooden floor in the lounge in the mistaken belief that it was to be carpeted. We were forced to clear all of this up. We took pictures. An inventory was never prepared or signed. Deposit was £1938.

Fast forward: earlier this year we received a letter from the landlord saying that he would be selling the flat soon, and would it be OK if some people came round to look at it. This was fine, they came round and looked. He didn't give us notice or anything, just letting us know.

We decided that we didn't want to go over into a rolling contract, knowing that any day could be the day we get our 2-month notice to quit. So we decided we would move out at the end of the contract (i.e., we would be out by the 7th August this year). We didn't give any notice of this, as we weren't sure we'd find somewhere, and we're not obliged to.

This weekend just gone (4th & 5th), we moved out. We will be returning the keys to the agent tonight (6th). We left the flat spick and span, much better condition than we found it. Haven't taken any photos, but could conceivably do so before handing the keys in.

The agent has now rung me and said we are liable for another month's rent because we went over the 5th. As far as I am concerned, we have paid a year's rent and had a year's use of the flat. Otherwise we were paying rent while the decorators were in there.

She also tried to claim that we should have given notice but that was soon discredited.

She is going to withold a month's rent from the deposit for this. And she is insisting that if there is any damage to the property (there isn't, but you know they'll find some) that she will make deductions for that as well.

Now, I reckon, in court, no judge is going to make us pay rent for a month when we were actually prevented from moving in until the 8th and were out by the 7th the next year. They will also be unable to prove initial condition of the flat so damage deductions will be proven invalid.

I guess what I'm asking is, how confident are you guys that I can get my deposit back? And also, whom would I take to court over this? The agent was managing the property; the landlord is in Dubai.

["We" in this post consists of me and my bride-to-be, just so you know.]

[LittleMissSunshine]

Hi Jumble

this nearly sounds like my story with fighting over the terms of the contract. I dont have any answers for you, apart from try to get advice too from CAB, Local Council, ARLA and whereever possible. I keep an eye on your posts as they might come handy for my own fight

Good Luck
LMS

[MATTYFEZ]

Im no expert, but I would think the alleged Rent arreas issue will swing on weather you can prove you moved in on the 8th, not the 6th.

They shouldnt be able to deduct rent from the deposit untill that matter is resolved.

As for any alleged damage deductions from the deposit, no signed inventory = no deductions for damage....there are other posts covering the damage deductions issue, have a read...

[MrShed]

Unless you got it in writing, I would say your chances of getting that months rent back in court are slim to none. If it is not in writing that you moved in late, the current only WRITTEN piece of paper regarding dates is the tenancy agreement, and this states the 5th.

[Jumble Jumble]

I have some emails from the landlord which mention that flooring was being done on the 7th and that we were moving in on the 8th. These are held on googlemail so could not really be faked.

Any good?

[MrShed]

Hmmm....emails are very easy to fake "from" addresses. However, if it actually states that you are moving in on the 8th, due to the works, then this strengthens your position tenfold.

[Jumble Jumble]

Right. Well, gmail reports the date that the email was actually sent, so I would have had to fake it on August 4th last year!

They're refusing to give us a photocopy of the signed contract (we can't find ours as we've just moved) to compare with ours, they can't do that, right? Data Protection Act and all that?

[LittleMissSunshine]

They cannot directly refuse on the Data Protection Act, however they can ask to pay. Easiest is as if dealing with banks etc, send a letter stating that you want your file as obliged under the data protection act. Add a £10 cheque to it to cover the costs (as this is whats normally charged) And give them I think 40 days to comply. If not you can start procedures with the Financial Ombudsman as they are than breaking the law.


Good Luck
LMS

[Jumble Jumble]

Cool, thanks. It's only photocopying a document so once I mention the Data Protection Act they'll probably just do it. But I will of course give them the tenner if necessary!

[Jumble Jumble]

Update:

It turns out my memory is slightly faulty.

We signed the contract which gave the moving in date of the 5th, on July 24th 2006.

On July 25th, we were told that we would not be able to move in until the 8th. It was at this point we were told we would get a year's use of the flat.

So after the contract was signed, they... what? "Breached" it?

[jampot]

If you've no proof of the change of dates, it sounds awfully hard to fight it.

Any proof as to when you ACTUALLY moved in, and any WRITTEN confirmation from the agent/landlord regarding the delay?

[Jumble Jumble]

Everything I have is email. However it's stored on gmail and I think that the date indicated by gmail is fairly conclusive and would not be possible to fake other than by a google employee. Given that a post office employee could fake a postmark, I think they should be equivalent.

I do have emails from the landlord showing that work was still being done on the 7th, and also mentioning that we would be moving in on the 8th.

[jampot]

It is a shame that your ACTUAL tenancy agreement says differently...

But if you have:

1) emails from the landlord, explaining that work is being carried out, which obviously meant it was unsuitable for occupancy
2) confirmation (email or other written form) that you would get 'a full year's use of the flat'

Then you may have a case.

Unfortunately, there are (I understand) strict 'rules' about notice periods and move-out dates, and these are based generally on the dates given in the tenancy agreement - so technically, and despite the initial circumstances, you HAVE gone over the lawful date to move out (and not owe an extra month).

I don't know which way it would go... morally you are in the right, but legally you should have vacated prior to the 5th August, unless the landlord agreed to swap the dates when you were prevented from occupation at the START to cover you at the END.

[Jumble Jumble]

Given that we went over by 2 days, we were given a dirty flat, we were prevented from moving in on time, we paid a year's rent, and we returned the flat in better condition than we received it, I guess I'm willing to gamble on a judge being sympathetic.

The only thing I don't have a document for is that we were promised a full year's use.

[Jumble Jumble]

Update: Stood firm. We're getting the whole lot back.

[jampot]

Excellent result!

[Jumble Jumble]

Another update: they made us wait six weeks, while insisting this was "not a significant amount of time to wait". Of course, ten days is the legal maximum under the new deposit protection scheme. What an extraordinary act of bad faith. Anyway, eventually we got it back, every penny. And we won't deal with that agent ever again.

[GlasweJen]

well done Jumble!