Urgent Advice Needed

[manindebt]

Hi,

My Partner Moved To Bradford And The Place That She Moved To Was Advertised On The Internet And Was Very Cheap. Landlord Seemed Very Nice And Waived The Bond As The The Place Was Unfurnished And My Partner Gave A Previous Landlords Reference Saying That She Had Never Missed Any Rent And Left The Property In Excellent Condition.

She Paid 100 Part Rent Up Front And Agreed That She Would Pay The Difference Once She Had The Keys In Her Hand.

However The Landlord Didnt Want Cash And Said Transfer The Funds Directly Into Her Account. This She Did Although Due To A Keying Error By Me It Went To The Wrong Account And Will Take 10 Days To Fix.

However The Landlord Has Now Come Across Very Agressive Threatening To Kick Her Out Etc And Saying Why Does She Not Go And Get An Overdraft Or Go To A Doorstep Lender Or Borrow From Family.

She Does Not Wish To Go Down These Avenues As In 7 Days Time I Shall Have The Money Back And Can Then Pay The Landlord.

The Problem We Have Is That No Tenancy Agreement Has Been Signed, And I Dont Think 1 Will Be Howebver My Question To You All Is She Still Protected Under Any Laws And Thus Protected From My Landlord Just Turning Up And Kicking Her Out? Even Though Nothing Has Been Signed?

She's Kept All The Emails Exchanged Which Make It Clear That She Was Assigned Tenancy And That The 100 Paid Was Part Payment For Rent (this Is Not Under Dispute) Does This Mean That Because Rent Has Been Part Paid It Is A Given That She Is The Tenant And That The Owner Is The Landlord And Therefore Normal Protocol Still Has To Be Followed Before She Can Be Kicked Out? I.e Through The Courts Etc?

Please Help.

Thanks

[Joa]

Hi manindebt. First of all, how do you do it that every word starts from a capital letter? Very peculiar.
Secondly; your partner is a tenant, tenancy is valid (even without signed agreement- although I would definitely ask for one), the landlord has to follow correct procedure to evict her. He cannot just turn up and kick her out. If he does or if he interferes in any way with her occupation of the premises, she needs to call the cops pronto and scream illegal eviction and not be fobbed off by plod saying is not their business.
With a landlord like this I would keep a wary eye on other issues like gas safety certificate, keeping receipts for rent paid etc. Right now, pay him a.s.a.p., apologise (your mistake after all), keep him sweet because he has a capacity to be unreasonable- and look for some place else to live once this tenancy is over.

[Esio Trot]

Originally Posted by Joa

Hi manindebt. First of all, how do you do it that every word starts from a capital letter? Very peculiar.

Makes hard reading. You did better than me - I gave up after one paragraph.

[Joa]

I am told it's called "shift abuse" lol

[rosysparkle]

It's because the OP posted all in CAPS. The site turns the whole post into the style above, which is also very hard to read, but perhaps better than all caps.

[sequenci]

If there is no tenancy agreement, there is still an implied tenancy (assured shorthold) so they will still have the same rights. If the landlord wanted to evict your partner they would need sufficient grounds to do so and follow the correct protocol for doing so, this would involve a court order.

the following link will give more info for you

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 17 How Can My Landlord End My Assured Tenancy

[manindebt]

Hi people,

Firstly i'd like to apologise for the shift abuse as it is called, i was stark raving mad and didnt notice it was all in caps.

I'd like to give you all an update, im not looking for sympathy more i would really really appreciate some good sound advice, posiibly step by step and if any of you specialise in Housing Law i would really like to communicate with you directly if this site permts it?

The update is that on Tuesday the landlady called my wife up and said that she she is frustrated and not willing to give any more time for the advance rent to be paid, my wife explained to her that the following day (weds) the money will be back in our accounts at 5pm and that on thurs (yesterday) we would deposit the funds into her account, the landlady huffed and puffed and slammed the phone down.

I called her on wednesday to say that the funds were there at 2pm and how would she like me to deposit the funds into her account, chq, bacs, cash etc, she said not fussed as long as they are there.

However at 5pm my wife went home from work and the landlady's sister, who i feel is her agent as has been over a few times to inspect the property and have an alarm fitted, was there with a locksmith and the locks had been changed leaving my wife out in the cold with no clothes, medication (on the pill due to hormones) food and all documentation still in the house i.e driving licences, passports etc.

My wife rang the landlady direct who said she would only grant access if the outstanding amount plus an additional £100 was paid to cover the cost of replacing the locks. My wife refused and left the premises crying her eyes out with no where to turn (i was 50 miles away on business).

I left what i was doing to join the wife and called the landlady who confirmed the above, i advised this is unreasonable and that we had the funds but would not pay the £100 to cover changing of locks, she said no access then.

The problems im now having is that pretty much everywhere i turn to seem to confirm the wife a victim of illegal eviction, i.e housing agency, free advice from solicitor in drop in session etc, but beacuse we dont qualify for legal aid no one has helped us. Even the police have said its a civil matter and wont help us even though Shelter (really good for advice) faxed over details to them highlighting the police powers available to them.

I think the police will not help us because they have a lack of understanding of the law and they feel there is a dispute over whether my wife had a right to be there as there is no written tenancy agreement and the advance rent was in arrears. The polce woman said surely it can be right to let the wife in if she hasnt paid to be there? I tried explaining as hard as i could that the landlady needed to have obtained a court order but she wouldnt listen.

The landlady even spoke to the housing officer and a solicitor who was giving us free advice and said my wife was living there on licence and so therefore doesnt need to give notice as the advance hadnt been paid only part of it had.

The solicitor did try to explain that it was an AST but even if it was a licence reasonable notice needs to have been given.

All of our wordly possessions are stll in the propertry and we are living with a friend, wife on sofa im on the floor and my wife still has no clothes although i got a few bits and piecies for her today.

We have spoken to the landlady today and she has said that if we want we can get all our stuff out tomorrow, i advised that to move 80 boxes plus electrical equipment we would need 2 days and she has refused and even then i advised that i need some interim access to get my driving licence and i.d to hire a van and she has said she will think about it and call me back. Im still waiting.

I guess what im asking is, i am going to grab as much stuff as i can and take it in order of priority i.e medication, clothing, food, expensive items etc. Hopefully i will get all of it out but unsure i will be able to do so within a day.

In addition the landlady has already got in touch with a letting agency and relet the property and advised that a tenancy agreement has been signed and that the reason she is allowing the wife to get her things and not throw them out into the garden is that she wants to move the new tenant in.

I need some advice guys/gals, what do i do. I spoke to a solicitor about getting an injunction but was advised it would cost me £1,000 we dont qualify for legal aid and do not have this sort of money but the solicitor did say i could try to do it myself although to lodge it would cost £150.

I went to the court today and unfortunately i got bogged down with the n16a form in that i wasnt sure how to fill it in and i did type up particulars of the claim but didnt know if it was correct, therefore i gave up on it as i can ill afford to pay £150 only for a judge to throw it out because its all incorrect.

The same solicitor advised that to pursue the matter would cost £2500 maybe more as housing law is complex and expensive which we would have to foot the billl for as we are not entitled to any legal aid.

My problem is this, i am happy to go and get all my stuff out but should i still pursue this afterwards by taking out a personal loan or by paying for the legal service on a finance plan? ive found a solicitor who offers this. Would it be financially worth my while to do so?

The problems i am faced with is that i do not know the landladys addres she never provided me with this, she only gave an address (possibly an incorrect one) for her sister as she has been acting on her behalf as her agent.

She never provided a gas safety certificate either.

My brain says that once i get all my stufff its not worthwhile pursuing this as i have to pay all the fees and it could take me a year or 2 to pay them back on finance and ive still not had it confirmed whether this is illegal eviction.

My heart says that i should pursue this to save my marriage, my wife has been humiliated by the landlady as when she requested access just to take some clothes she was refuses and was told she was wearing some already and didnt need anymore, she was also told that i didnt care enough for her by not arranging the funds sooner to avoid the advance rent going into arrears and she was threatened over the phone. On these grounds im tempted to take this all the way.

What do people on here think, also if the wife takes all her stuff back and no longer wishes to live there (but she will have to find somewhere else to live) will we still need the injunction? If not will this reduce legal costs of the solicitors etc? How easy is it to claim for damages and what are the liklely costs of pursuing this?

Im really sorry for the long post and for making it sound all emotional rather than getting straight to the point but ive seen some great advice given on this site and thought id give as much info as possible.

If anyone is willing to communicate with me to take me through the process and potential costs and if anyone knows where i can get any sort of funding or someone to prosecute her under any Acts then that would be fantastic.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

An at a loss Manindebt.

[manindebt]

Hi people,

Firstly i'd like to apologise for the shift abuse as it is called, i was stark raving mad and didnt notice it was all in caps.

I'd like to give you all an update, im not looking for sympathy more i would really really appreciate some good sound advice, posiibly step by step and if any of you specialise in Housing Law i would really like to communicate with you directly if this site permts it?

The update is that on Tuesday the landlady called my wife up and said that she she is frustrated and not willing to give any more time for the advance rent to be paid, my wife explained to her that the following day (weds) the money will be back in our accounts at 5pm and that on thurs (yesterday) we would deposit the funds into her account, the landlady huffed and puffed and slammed the phone down.

I called her on wednesday to say that the funds were there at 2pm and how would she like me to deposit the funds into her account, chq, bacs, cash etc, she said not fussed as long as they are there.

However at 5pm my wife went home from work and the landlady's sister, who i feel is her agent as has been over a few times to inspect the property and have an alarm fitted, was there with a locksmith and the locks had been changed leaving my wife out in the cold with no clothes, medication (on the pill due to hormones) food and all documentation still in the house i.e driving licences, passports etc.

My wife rang the landlady direct who said she would only grant access if the outstanding amount plus an additional £100 was paid to cover the cost of replacing the locks. My wife refused and left the premises crying her eyes out with no where to turn (i was 50 miles away on business).

I left what i was doing to join the wife and called the landlady who confirmed the above, i advised this is unreasonable and that we had the funds but would not pay the £100 to cover changing of locks, she said no access then.

The problems im now having is that pretty much everywhere i turn to seem to confirm the wife a victim of illegal eviction, i.e housing agency, free advice from solicitor in drop in session etc, but beacuse we dont qualify for legal aid no one has helped us. Even the police have said its a civil matter and wont help us even though Shelter (really good for advice) faxed over details to them highlighting the police powers available to them.

I think the police will not help us because they have a lack of understanding of the law and they feel there is a dispute over whether my wife had a right to be there as there is no written tenancy agreement and the advance rent was in arrears. The polce woman said surely it can be right to let the wife in if she hasnt paid to be there? I tried explaining as hard as i could that the landlady needed to have obtained a court order but she wouldnt listen.

The landlady even spoke to the housing officer and a solicitor who was giving us free advice and said my wife was living there on licence and so therefore doesnt need to give notice as the advance hadnt been paid only part of it had.

The solicitor did try to explain that it was an AST but even if it was a licence reasonable notice needs to have been given.

All of our wordly possessions are stll in the propertry and we are living with a friend, wife on sofa im on the floor and my wife still has no clothes although i got a few bits and piecies for her today.

We have spoken to the landlady today and she has said that if we want we can get all our stuff out tomorrow, i advised that to move 80 boxes plus electrical equipment we would need 2 days and she has refused and even then i advised that i need some interim access to get my driving licence and i.d to hire a van and she has said she will think about it and call me back. Im still waiting.

I guess what im asking is, i am going to grab as much stuff as i can and take it in order of priority i.e medication, clothing, food, expensive items etc. Hopefully i will get all of it out but unsure i will be able to do so within a day.

In addition the landlady has already got in touch with a letting agency and relet the property and advised that a tenancy agreement has been signed and that the reason she is allowing the wife to get her things and not throw them out into the garden is that she wants to move the new tenant in.

I need some advice guys/gals, what do i do. I spoke to a solicitor about getting an injunction but was advised it would cost me £1,000 we dont qualify for legal aid and do not have this sort of money but the solicitor did say i could try to do it myself although to lodge it would cost £150.

I went to the court today and unfortunately i got bogged down with the n16a form in that i wasnt sure how to fill it in and i did type up particulars of the claim but didnt know if it was correct, therefore i gave up on it as i can ill afford to pay £150 only for a judge to throw it out because its all incorrect.

The same solicitor advised that to pursue the matter would cost £2500 maybe more as housing law is complex and expensive which we would have to foot the billl for as we are not entitled to any legal aid.

My problem is this, i am happy to go and get all my stuff out but should i still pursue this afterwards by taking out a personal loan or by paying for the legal service on a finance plan? ive found a solicitor who offers this. Would it be financially worth my while to do so?

The problems i am faced with is that i do not know the landladys addres she never provided me with this, she only gave an address (possibly an incorrect one) for her sister as she has been acting on her behalf as her agent.

She never provided a gas safety certificate either.

My brain says that once i get all my stufff its not worthwhile pursuing this as i have to pay all the fees and it could take me a year or 2 to pay them back on finance and ive still not had it confirmed whether this is illegal eviction.

My heart says that i should pursue this to save my marriage, my wife has been humiliated by the landlady as when she requested access just to take some clothes she was refuses and was told she was wearing some already and didnt need anymore, she was also told that i didnt care enough for her by not arranging the funds sooner to avoid the advance rent going into arrears and she was threatened over the phone. On these grounds im tempted to take this all the way.

What do people on here think, also if the wife takes all her stuff back and no longer wishes to live there (but she will have to find somewhere else to live) will we still need the injunction? If not will this reduce legal costs of the solicitors etc? How easy is it to claim for damages and what are the liklely costs of pursuing this?

Im really sorry for the long post and for making it sound all emotional rather than getting straight to the point but ive seen some great advice given on this site and thought id give as much info as possible.

If anyone is willing to communicate with me to take me through the process and potential costs and if anyone knows where i can get any sort of funding or someone to prosecute her under any Acts then that would be fantastic.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

An at a loss Manindebt.

[manindebt]

apologies for the duplicate posting.

However re the above, is the landlady entled to just throw my possessions out into the garden at all?

Thanks

[Esio Trot]

Originally Posted by manindebt

apologies for the duplicate posting.

To make easier reading, you can delete almost all of the text in the duplicate post, and you could have inserted your question below in its place.

However re the above, is the landlady entitled to just throw my possessions out into the garden at all?

Your wife has a tenancy (albeit verbal) if the following have happened:

• She has occupation
• it is exclusive (i.e. the landlord does not live as resident)
• There has been a consideration (money has been paid)
• Occupation took place with the permission of the owner (i.e. you/she is not a squatter)

In my opinion, the above are satisfied and she has a tenancy. Provided she pays the rent, she is protected for at least the minimum term in law of 6 months. In addition, the owner can't use accelerated possession procedures as there is no written tenancy.

Call the council first thing Monday and talk to the homeless officer. Unlawful eviction is a criminal matter, not civil. The police must intervene if called.

[manindebt]

Hi thanks for the reply.

We have been to the council, they passed us to a housing agency and because we dont qualify for legal aid wont help, they advised we need a solicitor and the police are just refusing really.

Ive had a call earlier today to go and get my stuff out so thats what im going to do, but can i still claim damages later and would i need an injunction to do s or can i just go for damages?

Anyone know whether this is worth pursuing, its in the west yorkshire area and if i do how much it could cost and how long it would take.

Thanks

[demon_x_slash]

Y'know as the legal tenant, you have every right to call out a locksmith and get the locks changed again yourself...

[Joa]

Absolute f*****ing liberty; from the landlady, from the police,from the council!! Illegal eviction is a serious civil and criminal offence
Back to the police; explain that you intend to make a complaint to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (find out: BBC - Action Network - How to make a complaint about the police unless action is taken to prosecute the landlady. At least get a crime reference number.

Additionally local authorities have the power to start legal proceedings for offences of harassment and illegal eviction under the Protection from Eviction Act. Talk to the local councillor!

Write to the landlady that you intend to seek damages;I am not sure if you are interested in injuction which would force the landlady to let you back in.
I wouldn't want to go anywhere near! tell her that unless she compensates you for your losses and distress, find you a new accommodation- you will take her to court for illegal eviction. Confirm to her that you have reported this incident to the police. Remind her that a person who is convicted by magistrates of an offence under the Act (Protection from Eviction Act 1977, which has been made stronger by the Housing Act 1988 ) may have to pay a maximum fine of £5,000 or be sent to prison for six months, or both. If the case goes to the Crown Court, the punishment can be prison for up to two years, or a fine, or both.


Start a very detailed log of two things: any costs associated or caused by the landlady's action plus chronological log of events and contacts. This must be done whilst its fresh in your memory and it will assist you with your damages case.

In the meantime, we will try to help with further process; particulars of claim, forms to use, etc.
Can all the resident experts take note and help, please?

And finally:

as the legal tenant, you have every right to call out a locksmith and get the locks changed again yourself...

- it is correct but dangerous; I cannot see the landlady taking it on the chin.

Take care.