Can't get bond back!!!!!

[paula40]

Well, where do I start?
We moved into a rented property on 1st April 2006 and gave the agents £650 in relation to the first month's rent and another £650.00 as a bond. We gave notice to the landlord and agent that we would be vacating the property on 30.10.06. We actually moved out on 27.10.06 giving ourselves the weekend to clean the house. We received a telephone call from the landlords on 28.10.06 telling us that they were starting to decorate the house that day because they had new tenants moving in on 30.10.06. We reiterated that we wanted that time to clean and remove excess belongings but they said not to bother etc. etc. So, we went over and removed the stray belongings and handed in the keys. On 28.10.06 we had another call from the landlords stating that there was a burn mark on the dining room carpet. We said we knew this but it was there when we moved in, they disagreed. They said that the agent would sort this out by looking at the inventory. So, we hassled and hassled the agent for the inventory (which we were not present at, either before moving in or when we moved out) and he has refused to send them to us although he has promised to. We even got our solicitor to try but to no avail. We then tried to complain through the ombudsman for estate agents but they were not affiliated members. So, we then sent another letter to the agent saying that we were going to claim for our bond through the small claims court. This has now been going on since October 2006 and we are no further forward. We know we can't take the agents to court but it will have to be the landlord. Question is, is it worth it? We want to but don't know where we stand. Should we have been privvy to an inventory? because it says we should have on our tenancy agreement? Also, why can't we sue the agent because he is the one who should have done the inventory? We have sent a LBA to the landlords (they received this yesterday).
Any help would be really appreciated.

Paula

[MrShed]

Have you signed the initial move in inventory? I guess not from your answers, but just to clarify 100%.

[paula40]

No we didn't sign an inventory before we moved in nor when we moved out!!! Sorry for the delay in getting back to you....
Paula

[barracad]

If you didn't sign an inventory when you moved in then they are not allowed to make any deductions at all.

Send a letter to the landlord demanding the deposit to be returned in full, and if no joy, take them to court.

[paula40]

I have sent a LBA letter giving them 14 days to pay back the deposit otherwise we will take them to court.
But, obviously, from reading the site, we should've demanded an inventory prior to moving in. The landlords have sent us written statements from neighbours commenting on our "lifestyle" and what they could see from their back gardens into the house too!!! Just completely ignored those because we did not know these people and they had never been in our house and they are best friends of landlords. I think that the LL thought that this amounted to inventories!!!!!!
So, they can't make deductions basically?????!!! Great.... we might get our bond back. We can also claim interest @ 8% once we file in court can't we?

[barracad]

The lack of inventory is the landlord's problem, not yours. And your "lifestlye" has nothing to do with anything.

The 8% can be claimed from the date the deposit was should have been returned to you, not from the date you paid it, so it may not amount to very much but still make sure you claim it if it goes that far.

[paula40]

I really appreciate your quick responses Barracad!!! Thank you. I wish I had a lifestyle to be perfectly honest with you!!!!!!! Jesting aside, so if it does get to court stage would you claim from the date the tenancy ended? or a month after or what?

[Joa]

I always advise to claim from 28 day after the end of the tenancy.
Interesting what you said about landlord re-decorating. I have been in court with a client once. The landlord claimed some damage and withheld the deposit. The judge said well, you intended to re-decorate anyway (prior intention to re-decorate, even before the damage was known to the landlord), so you cannot demad the tenant to pay for it!
Hmm, good for my client, I don't know if I would agree- but this little story is to show that judges are a funny lot and you are never really sure what may happen. So to answer your question whether it's worth it- I'd say, hell yeah! £650 for a burn mark in a carpet and no evidence ? Go for it.
Drop the fight for inventories- lack of these actually helps you. If they miraculously appear at the court proceedings stage, they will have no your signatures and the other party will have to send you a copy to be allowed to use it as evidence anyway.

[borisbeaver]

How do you work out the 8% interest on the deposit?

[Joa]

6. Interest calculation spreadsheets go to England-simple-excel.
Replace all the pre-inserted info, just leave the totals. Put in your amount and the date it became due.
Bingo.

[paula40]

Ok, so this weekend I'm going to be preparing my N1 to take to court next Wednesday. Can anyone help me to word this and also tell me what I should include (my POC)? Can I include letters from my solicitor and myself going back to OCtober 2006 to the land agent whereby he blatantly lies about inventories etc.?

Cheers
Paula

[paula40]

I still haven't filed my N1 and POC because when I looked at my letter, I had given LL until 6th August 2007 otherwise I would file on 7th August.

I didn't get any responses to my last posting so PLEASE can anyone help me with court claim form or point me in the right direction to fill in the POC. Anything would be a bonus.....
Thanks

[MrShed]

I received your PM Paula, but I steer well clear of the actual admin/N1/POC side of small claims, I do not feel I can advice confidently enough on the subject. However, thought I would reply here to act as a BUMP , I'm sure someone must be able to help?

[paula40]

Thanks for the reply MrShed I appreciate that!!!
Anyway, now going to post the letter that was hand delivered by LL yesterday in response to my LBA:

"Dear blah blah
re: previously rented house
Further to you letter dated 31.7.07 I would like to clarify a coupl eof points stated in your letter.
Your tenancy notice ended on 30.10.06 as stated in your letter, but you vacated on 27.10.06. I entered the property on 28.10.06 to find that, as well as needing a good clean, there was damage to two carpets. The first was in the dining room where an iron had burnt an imprint into the carpet and, secondly, the bedroom upstairs had, what I can only presume, was chocolate milkshake or the likes spilt and no attempt had been made to clean up. There were also other items damaged or missing as stated in the enclosed copy of Stuart Edwards Ltd inventory which was carried out the same day. An inventory is not carried out when the property is still occupied it is carried out when empty as there could be damage when the tenants are vacating.
To avail any doubt the previous tenant Mr blah blah was refunded his full deposit. Due to the damage made by yourselves Stuart Edwards Ltd have retained said deposit until this situation is concluded. Please find enclosed to alleviate any doubt copies of the original inventory (handwritten) commissioned before Mr blah blah, copy of inventory after his vacation and a copy of inventory after your vacation. A beginning of tenancy inventory was not carried out before your tenancy commenced as there was no work carried out except thorough clean.
If you insist in pursuing this claim through the courts for the return of your deposit I will counter sue for the damage incurred to the second carpet as well as court costs and estate agency fees which will be incurred if their attendance is required. Obviously just to further clarify photographic evidence of the damage was taken and statements from neighbours were supplied, which I am sure you have been supplied copies, which myself and Stuart Edwards Ltd have retained in the event of court attendance.
If you have decided not to pursue this any further I would like written confirmation from yourselves by 15.08.07 in order for this whole charade to be put to rest.
Yours sincerley

Blah blah poo-head."

Does everyone think (replies would be good!!!!!) that we should just go ahead and file a claim? On our leaving inventory, they have tippexed out the first letters and put 'end' on the top hand-written, when you look at the back of the inventory, they have tippexed out 'beg' and hand-written 'end'!!!!!! So, I think this was the inventory done when we moved in and they've just put end on it cos if it was the beginning, the house was in that state when we moved in!!!! Does that make sense? I was concerned because I thought the judge would think we tampered with the inventory (that was sent to us) but if it did orginally say 'beg' it's in our interests for it to stay saying 'beg'.........
And I don't think that the final threat would look good in court. Also, if we took LL to court and won? would she still be able to counter sue? I have letters from the LA stating, back in January, that "the LL does not want to pursue monies for the second carpet" is that enough or can LL change their mind?
Please, any responses good or bad very very welcome!!!
Paula

[MrShed]

How much of the deposit are they wanting to withhold? It is up to you really. I personally think that you have a solid legal case, but strange things can and do happen in court, so you need to weight up the hassle, and the potential for losing(along with the associated costs), against the potential "winnings".

[paula40]

Thanks MrShed. They have withheld all £650.00 of our damage deposit. The carpet was £649.95p and the LA wrote us a letter stating that they would not be asking us for the remaining £50.00!!!! The LA didn't even check that we had enough money to cover the full amount!!!!
Yesterday was the first time we had seen this inventory and apparantly it was done on 28/10/06 (a Saturday) and we didn't end our tenancy until 30/10/06 and some of our belongings were still in the house at that time!!! and they didn't ask permission to enter the house..... Going through the letter and the inventories there are at least 11 discrepancies where they have said one thing but written a letter stating another. The LL said that there wasn't an inventory done before we moved in, but the tippex on the inventory is covering a typed Beg????? which suggests that one was done and the condition of the house was as we left it!!!!!!!!