Penalty Fare Summons

[Aginor]

Hello all, long time lurker first time poster!

I have been reading all the posts on the penalty fare charges made by the train companies with interest for some time now out of general interest, but never thought that i would actually need the help myself! So here is the story...

I have just recieved a magistrates summons, stating that around 6 months ago i, contrary to railway byelaw 18(1), i entered a non-compulsory ticket area for the purpose of travelling on the railway without valid ticket. Full witness statement etc is included in the package, including plea entering etc. Costs of over£100 are bing applied for.

This is the first i have heard from the TOC since the incident happened. I was travelling to work, as every morning, got to my destination station, took out my season ticket to find alas i hadn't brought it! So i walked up to someone from the railway company and explained to him i had obviously forgotten it, he was a very nice man, said not to worry it happens to people all the time, and that i had two choices, pay for a ticket today and claim back the money by sending a photocopy of my rail pass to them, or fill in a form which would let me continue travelling and then send of a photocopy of my rail pass to them along with the form. I decided on the latter, carried on my journey, sent off my photocopy and form the next day, thought no more about it.

And now this.

My question, appart from any general advice, is, where do i go from here? I feel incredibly angry about this. I have my season ticket for that month still, i have been using that route for years without a problem like this before. A court summons seems very excessive to me. I feel the person who i dealt with at the station, although pleasant, was not being entirley honest about what the form was, that it could lead to a legal case, otherwise i would have just paid the fare for that day and reclaimed it! He made me feel it was just a formality. Also, as i sent them all that they asked for, i do not understand why they are persuing me? Im worried about this being a criminal case too as i work in education so the immplications could be far reaching and out of all proprtion...

If you have managed to read all that, Any help would be greatly appreciated !

A

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[blazer666_uk]

Byelaw 18 summons are normally issued when you have had 2 or more penalty fares in the last 12 months, as the Penalty Fare scheme is there to educate and inform people. In your case you have not learnt from your 2 previous penalty fares and so southeastern have issued this byelaw against you.

If you are guilty you have NO chance of winning as the relationship between the TOC's and the local magistrates has been in place for years. It is like a factory at the magistrates. The TOC will book block sessions at the magistrates as there are lots of byelaws and fraud cases every day. The case sequence goes like this.......

magistrate "next"
Toc "we have a MR x, intention to avoid paying for fare"
Magistrate "is Mr X here"
Toc "no"
Magistatre "Right, Guilty"
Toc "Ok"
Magistrate "NEXT"

Repeat above sequence 2 dozen times


If you turn up you have a "chance" of bargaining with the TOC outside of court if the TOC feels there is some doubt in the evidence.

Bear in mind if you are found guilty you WILL GET A CRIMINAL RECORD - which will come up on a criminal records check (CRB).

Anyone who has any questions about railway issues please PM me as I work in this area and have a good understanding of how the TOC's operate

[Old-CodJA]

Originally Posted by Aginor

Hello all, long time lurker first time poster!

I have been reading all the posts on the penalty fare charges made by the train companies with interest for some time now out of general interest, but never thought that i would actually need the help myself! So here is the story...

I have just recieved a magistrates summons, stating that around 6 months ago i, contrary to railway byelaw 18(1), i entered a non-compulsory ticket area for the purpose of travelling on the railway without valid ticket. Full witness statement etc is included in the package, including plea entering etc. Costs of over£100 are bing applied for.

This is the first i have heard from the TOC since the incident happened. I was travelling to work, as every morning, got to my destination station, took out my season ticket to find alas i hadn't brought it! So i walked up to someone from the railway company and explained to him i had obviously forgotten it, he was a very nice man, said not to worry it happens to people all the time, and that i had two choices, pay for a ticket today and claim back the money by sending a photocopy of my rail pass to them, or fill in a form which would let me continue travelling and then send of a photocopy of my rail pass to them along with the form. I decided on the latter, carried on my journey, sent off my photocopy and form the next day, thought no more about it.

And now this.

My question, appart from any general advice, is, where do i go from here? I feel incredibly angry about this. I have my season ticket for that month still, i have been using that route for years without a problem like this before. A court summons seems very excessive to me. I feel the person who i dealt with at the station, although pleasant, was not being entirley honest about what the form was, that it could lead to a legal case, otherwise i would have just paid the fare for that day and reclaimed it! He made me feel it was just a formality. Also, as i sent them all that they asked for, i do not understand why they are persuing me? Im worried about this being a criminal case too as i work in education so the immplications could be far reaching and out of all proprtion...

If you have managed to read all that, Any help would be greatly appreciated !

A

Before making a generalisation, I will ask which train company service you were travelling on?

It will have a bearing on any comment I might make and the reason I say that is because Blazer666_uk's reply refers to penalty fares and your original post doesn't.

It is important to be accurate. The wording would normally be slightly different because where a penalty fare is relevant the applicable legislation would be Byelaw 17 not Byelaw 18.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Old-CodJA]

Originally Posted by blazer666_uk

Byelaw 18 summons are normally issued when you have had 2 or more penalty fares in the last 12 months, as the Penalty Fare scheme is there to educate and inform people. In your case you have not learnt from your 2 previous penalty fares and so southeastern have issued this byelaw against you.

If you are guilty you have NO chance of winning as the relationship between the TOC's and the local magistrates has been in place for years. It is like a factory at the magistrates. The TOC will book block sessions at the magistrates as there are lots of byelaws and fraud cases every day. The case sequence goes like this.......

magistrate "next"
Toc "we have a MR x, intention to avoid paying for fare"
Magistrate "is Mr X here"
Toc "no"
Magistatre "Right, Guilty"
Toc "Ok"
Magistrate "NEXT"

Repeat above sequence 2 dozen times


If you turn up you have a "chance" of bargaining with the TOC outside of court if the TOC feels there is some doubt in the evidence.

Bear in mind if you are found guilty you WILL GET A CRIMINAL RECORD - which will come up on a criminal records check (CRB).

Anyone who has any questions about railway issues please PM me as I work in this area and have a good understanding of how the TOC's operate

I think that a little further clarification is important here so as not to alarm you unduly. 30 years experience in this line of work has taught me that although I cannot condone 'fare evasion', I do think it would be wrong to be panicked by the words CRIMINAL RECORD in this case.

Firstly, a prosecution under Railways Byelaws (2005) 17 or 18 is NOT the same as being prosecuted for 'intending to avoid a fare', which is an offence against the Regulation of Railways Act (1889).

The example quoted by blazer666 is a sort of simplified version of what might happen if the accused person was charged with 'intent to avoid a fare' and had not replied to the summons presented at court, but a breach of Byelaw 18 is what is known as a 'strict liability offence' and intent is not an issue.

While it is true, there would be a record of a conviction in these cases, it is not true to compare it with the seriousness of a charge of dishonest intent and probably not true to say it would necessarily be a threat to employment in all cases.

The most important questions in my mind are,

1. When did your previous season ticket expire, was it more than a day before you travelled? (I'm sorry if I may be a little confused here because I'm not sure whether you are saying that you had left a valid season at home or, that yours had run out and you hadn't just renewed it.)
2. Did you ever get acknowledgement by them that you had sent a photo-copy of your season ticket to the rail company?

It is true that you will be found guilty if you do not respond and that even if you had a valid ticket, you may still be charged and convicted because the Byelaw 18 offence is 'fail to show a ticket'.

Before any court hearing it is worth putting forward any mitigation you think relevant to the rail company nevertheless.

It is still worth writing to the train company prosecutor with an explanation and a copy of your season covering the date of travel or, for the day before if it had just run out.

This may encourage the rail company to consider an out of court settlement, which could save you a lot of money and avoid a conviction in the long run.

If they allow an out of court settlement it will certainly be a lot cheaper than the fine, costs and compensation that might be ordered by a court if you are convicted.

[silver surferrr]

I had a similar experience a year ago, I turned up at the station and realised that I have left my Annual ticket at home. Not wanting to miss the train the guard gave me a slip of paper to travel with. 1 month later I received a letter from the prosecautions dept requesting a copy of my ticket. so i posted the information and thought no more of it. Well 2 months after that I received a court summons.

I immediately phoned the department and explained that I had sent a copy of my ticket (they did not recieve it). They asked me to immediately fax another copy of my ticket, which I did. They then called me back and said everything was ok and the court action would be cancelled.

so give them a call, you should be ok.

[blazer666_uk]

the orignal explanation from Aginor suggests he was issued a fail to carry or a PF - which will reflect my first post, I will reiterate, you MUST of had 2 PF's or you have forgotten your season ticket before, Hence why you were issued with a byelaw 18.

[SRPO]

Originally Posted by blazer666_uk

the orignal explanation from Aginor suggests he was issued a fail to carry or a PF - which will reflect my first post, I will reiterate, you MUST of had 2 PF's or you have forgotten your season ticket before, Hence why you were issued with a byelaw 18.

Blazer666, you are talking about the revenue protection policy of 1 TOC, under the byelaws, penalty fare act & regulation of railways act there is no requirement for a previous incident before court action.

I dont wish to sound patronizing but you really should not make statements like the above when your experience is limited to the company you work for. Sorry.

[Aginor]

hey guys, thanks for replying. just to issue a follow up after being in contact with the train company, a bit of backwards and forwards, they agreed to cancel the court action, two days beore the date might i add. I still feel unfairly treated by the train company staff at the ticket barrier, who's actions are bordering on the sinister to me. But to be fair the prosecution department of the same company were actually very helpful, and actually issued me with an apololgy as "it is not our intention to prosecute legitimate customers". There actions are still over the top in my opinion however.

Thanks for your input guys, i feel this site is a great resource.

P.s Blazer666, you are clearly incorrect, but most of those who speak with certainty usually are i find.