railcard, train scenario

[Hatetrains]

Hi there,

Sorry, im sure this must have been answered before, but I couldnt find it anywhere...

I bought my train tickets online. I bought them with a young persons railcard discount.

I have/had a railcard for the journey, but couldn't find it. I got on the train thinking, at least I have the exact recipet of the railcard, that should be enough...

On the train, I searched hard for the receipt, but couldnt find it. Ticket guy said pay 160 off quid - he was rude bla bla, but that's all been said before...

I said I havent got that money on me - he asked me to sign something that said I intended to board this train without a valid ticket (which wasnt true).

When I refused, he got the railway civil police person to interview/caution me etc.

He interviewed me and his notes along with a summons have been issued to me asking for 60quid plus costs (120quid).

I got my brother to pick up the receipt from my house that day and produced it to the train company at my final destination & got the card replaced.

He said the company should send a fine, pay it and you should be fine etc...

Well it had been 4 months. Now I have this summons...

In fact I am currently abroad and will be for the next 6-8 months probably.

Can anyone help please???

[SOD'EM]

If you have a date for court and are not there, a warrant will be issued for your arrest. It should not have come this far but the train company obviously have not been bothered sorting the mess out amicably.

You need to sort out the court first before the due date. You can contact them yourself or send a representative on your behalf to say that you are out of the country and (with good reason) cannot possibly return to attend court. You need to put it in writing that you intend to contest the summons. Then you need to sort out the rail company.

Firstly, put it in writing exactly what has happened and send it recorded delivery (HEAD OFFICE). If you let me know which company it is, I will get the address for you. You can't really do much more than this until they reply. I suppose you could appeal to the train companies better nature and get them to reconsider taking you to court.

[Hatetrains]

Thanks for that. It is First Great Western.

I will get someone to represent me to say I am away. However, I need to know if I have a case to contest the claim?

Do you or anyone know where I stand?

[SOD'EM]

Originally Posted by Hatetrains

Thanks for that. It is First Great Western.

I will get someone to represent me to say I am away. However, I need to know if I have a case to contest the claim?

Do you or anyone know where I stand?

Use this link and give them as much detail as you can. put down any reference numbers you may have from your letter/s. You won't really know where you stand until they reply. Just tell them what happened and you genuinely thought you had your valid railcard with you. They may drop it there and then. If they don't, use the same form to ask them for a copy online of their Terms and Conditions if they are not already available on the website.

As I said earlier, try and capture their good nature and don't be arrogant when you write to them. Not at this early stage anyway. I think they may well back down straight away as you have a good case. If they won't back down, you will then have the option to make a more stubborn approach.

First Great Western - Train times & buy cheap train tickets to London, Bath, Bristol, Oxford, Cardiff, Swansea, Reading, Exeter, Plymouth, Penzance


If this is any help at all, please click the small scales on the left and leave a short comment.

[Hatetrains]

Problem is, they have it under caution that I knew I didnt have the actual railcard on me, but that I thought I had the receipt. Is that going to ruin my case?

I'm still unsure of what stage everything is at. It's the first correspondence from them, but there is a court date set for 2 weeks.

If I write to FGW will they still drop it? They are already asking for prosecution fees?...

[SOD'EM]

You can only ask. Just inquire on the website. It was a young persons railcard, and as a young person you have a right to be slightly afraid or intimidated when approached by somebody in uniform. He got the transport police onto you. I would have signed anything myself. Tell them you tried to explain the error but he forced you to lie on the form and say you knew you never had the receipt on you.

[Hatetrains]

Importantly though, is the receipt sufficient. I mean I thought it was, at it had been accepted before, but I knew I didn't have the actual physical railcard on me.

Thanks for your help, do you know anything more about the 'intent' nature of this law?

I would have paid the fare if offered without them insisting I sign a criminally prosecuting paper.

[Hatetrains]

p.s. reakon the papers might be interested?

[SOD'EM]

The fact that they replaced your lost card would be enough to prove that you had in fact purchased a Young Persons Railcard previously. If it was the other way round and you only bought the card after this incident, that would be a different matter. Your replacement will have the date on when you originally purchased the card. This would entitle you to the discounted fare.

[Hatetrains]

It's a replacement and I have proof & all the dates of it. However, does that mean I will win?

I mean I didn't have a railcard on me at the time.

Alledged offence:

...did travel, or attempt to travel on the Railway
without having previously paid the correct rail fare, and with intent to avoid payment

thereof.

[SOD'EM]

You paid the correct fare, tell them you have proof. You genuinely thought you had the card with you. My money would be on you winning if you would only let them know of the situation. Just go on the website above and tell them everything. You don't have to speak to them if you don't want to.

[Hatetrains]

they have a record of me saying I knew I didnt have the railcard, but I thought I had the receipt of the railcard...that's the crux. If that's still ok, then I think i'll be ok.

[SOD'EM]

Go for it. You have nothing to lose. Act daft and say you didn't understand what was happening. You searched for the card which in turn suggests you have purchased one in the past and you have been given a replacement to prove it. We don't advocate lying on this site as a rule, but in this case you would be wise to say that you phoned the company before your journey and whoever you spoke to said it would be fine to travel, but get a replacement when you reach your destination.

If I was pulled up in my car and did not have my license, I would be given 7 days to produce it. They wouldn't fine me, as long as I did own one. Just say you felt intimidated or something like that and you thought you would be arrested if you didn't sign.

[maroondevo52]

Thread moved to Public Transport Forum

[mc661]

First Great Western
Customer Fob Off Team

Customer Services Team
First Great Western
Freepost SWB40576
Plymouth
PL4 6ZZ

Head Office.
Customer Services Manager
James Burt
First Great Western
1 Milford Street
Swindon
SN1 1HL

Chief Operating Officer
Andrew Haines
50 Eastbourne Terrace
Paddington
London
W2 6LX

[stevie1958]

Originally Posted by Hatetrains

Hi there,

Sorry, im sure this must have been answered before, but I couldnt find it anywhere...

I bought my train tickets online. I bought them with a young persons railcard discount.

I have/had a railcard for the journey, but couldn't find it. I got on the train thinking, at least I have the exact recipet of the railcard, that should be enough...

On the train, I searched hard for the receipt, but couldnt find it. Ticket guy said pay 160 off quid - he was rude bla bla, but that's all been said before...

I said I havent got that money on me - he asked me to sign something that said I intended to board this train without a valid ticket (which wasnt true).

When I refused, he got the railway civil police person to interview/caution me etc.

He interviewed me and his notes along with a summons have been issued to me asking for 60quid plus costs (120quid).

I got my brother to pick up the receipt from my house that day and produced it to the train company at my final destination & got the card replaced.

He said the company should send a fine, pay it and you should be fine etc...

Well it had been 4 months. Now I have this summons...

In fact I am currently abroad and will be for the next 6-8 months probably.

Can anyone help please???

Hi i am a conductor i also work for first group i would like to add first groupe will take you to court,if you board a train with a Y/P ticket and no valid Y/P card,then your ticket must be removed from your possesion and treated asd if you have no ticket at all,therefore if you refused to purchase a ticket its fare evasion,even if you produce your card at a later date,as who knowes you could have lent it to your friend etc,the fact is you must produce it wioth your ticket,sorry i cant offer any further help,( however i am sure the conductor could have used a bit of discretion).

[hightail]

then your ticket must be removed from your possesion

By whom? Why? I understand that without the railcard he had not paid the correct fare for the journey but the ticket in his possession is a receipt for money paid. If he's going to be treated as though he hadn't paid at all why take the existing ticket away?

[stevie1958]

hi, rail conditions of use ,the ticket is the property of the railway not the passenger,a ticket is not a reciept,any ticket that is been used wrongly will be removed from the passenger and treated as if they had no ticket,when you get a railcard you sign the agreement confirming this,i hope this is of help to you,also by purchasing a rail ticket you automatically enter an agreement to abide by railway rules and regulations,you can get a copy of these at most mainline stations,if you need further help please ask,i will be willing to give any advice.

[Farmerwardy]

@ stevie1958 -
my girlfriend has a very similar issue as above.
she had only 1 part of the young persons railcard with her (the photo part)
she was told when she bought it that this was the only bit she needed to carry and it hadnt caused any problems before (does the same london/bristol trip every week)
on the time in question she was asked for both parts.
the conductor said that if she could prove that the YP railcard was valid within 10 days she wouldnt have to pay the fine.
this she did.

now they still want to fine her but as its after the 1st 10 days its already mounting up.

not only was she told when buying it taht she only needed the photo part, but upon the fine being issued she was told that if she proved it was valid she wouldnt have to pay the fine.

advice?

(sorry for thread hijack)

[Farmerwardy]

anyone?