Train fine

[woody1066]

I am writing this on behalf of my partner. About 2 months ago she forgot her railpass and was accousted by the ticket inpsectors. She willingly gave them her name and address as she new that she had a perfectly valid pass. She seems to have lost this. When the letter from IAS came she sent them a copy of her bank statement showing that she had paid for a monthly railpass at the local station.

They have now written to her telling her that she has lost her appeal and that she has to pay a £20 fine. Surely this cannot be correct.
advice please

[Bookworm]

As far as I recall, the penalty is given for failing to carry the pass, and it is a condition of travel that the person should have it with them. If she didn't report the pass as lost/stolen on the same day that she was given the ticket, then I don't think that she has a leg to stand on. Bearing in mind that first you said she forgot her pass, and then that she seemed to have lost it, I think you'd be hard pushed to argue it in any case.

[forgottenone]

Agree with BW, TBH. If only for the obvious inconsistency in your post ... 'lost'. Not being harsh but if you were crossexamined in court or even by the police on such an obvious 'technicality' you'd be ripped to shreds. And that is how the rail company would view it as well ... changing story midway through. Doesn't look good.

They have now written to her telling her that she has lost her appeal and that she has to pay a £20 fine. Surely this cannot be correct.

Yes, it is right ... doesn't mean it is 'just' ... that's how it is. No pass, then conditions of travel were breached. It's not for the ticket collector to make excuses or make judgement calls. They get faced with this daily from people who DO doge fairs. So, to be fair ... on this occasion, just doing their job. Yes, I know that hurts ... but not a lot you can do. And they are 'right' in doing this.

[woody1066]

Sorry I slightly misled you on this one. She did lose her pass and did report it missing the same day. I have had exactly the same thing happen to me but I had just forgotten my pass. I emailed them a scan of my pass and the waived the fine. so they set a precedent

[seftonview]

Originally Posted by woody1066

Sorry I slightly misled you on this one. She did lose her pass and did report it missing the same day. I have had exactly the same thing happen to me but I had just forgotten my pass. I emailed them a scan of my pass and the waived the fine. so they set a precedent

Even if they had set a precedent, which they haven't (they aren't a court); the cases are materially different - your partner could not prove she had a pass, only a bank statement showing she paid the train company a given amount on a given date. You could and did prove you had one.

For the sake of twenty pounds I'd pay the fine rather than risk criminal prosecution.

[mc661]

Hi As you will gather I am an inspector on the railways.

Your partner was Penalty Fared (PF) for failure to carry or failure to present a valid ticket.
The only reason that you won your appeal is because you claimed a lost season ticket and sent in a scan of this within 21 days.
The only thing that IPFAS will accept as proof of a season ticket is the actual season ticket scan which you sent in.
A bank statement is only proof you paid XXX.XX for something railway related, it is not proof of payment for a season ticket.

I would accept the £20, dont get any more, and think of it as an experince.

IPFAS do not set precedences, they work to a set of rules which are also available from IPFAS or on the DfT website. (http://www.ircas.co.uk/docs/SRA%20-%...les%202002.pdf) and (http://www.ircas.co.uk/docs/SRA%20-%...20Practice.pdf) also (http://www.ircas.co.uk/docs/SRA%20-%...icy%202002.pdf)

• Season-ticket left at home. We expect allowances to be made for season-ticket holders who, for one reason or another, fail to carry their season-ticket or photocard. The system
used by most operators is that a penalty fare notice will be issued, but no payment will be taken. On two occasions for each person in any 12-month period, the penalty fare will be
cancelled when the passenger appeals. Some operators have procedures for cancelling penalty fares notices without having to go through the appeals process and we want to encourage this. The instructions given to authorised collectors must explain what the authorised collector and the season-ticket holder must do in this situation.