Anyone else think this is disgusting?

[68904]

Throughout West/South Yorkshire on the trains they carry proper ramps for wheel chairs.
The guards will help those users on and off the trains as part of thier on train duties. When you arrvie at main line stations eg York/Leeds/wakefield/ Newcastle you can be met by station staff to help you on and off the train.
At York thre are ramps on all platforms for this use.
Stations have to be adapted by law or disabled passengers.
When i was on duty it was a pleasure to help these citizens on and off the trains.
As usual we get rail operators who own bus companies and have no idea about running trains the motivating factor is profit, and disabled people do not fit into this buisness plan.
If people were falling onto the track, then a risk assessment should be done to stop this happening.
But wheelchairs/scooters take up valuable seating spaces, so that is why some cowboy rail companies do not like the above modes of conveyance.

[Mrs_Ryan]

Thats interesting... because my mum has also been told by a narky train conductor on a Northern Rail service to the MetroCentre shes not allowed on!!!
About the only place on Metro to park a scooter is as you get on, where there could be no seats.
Its totally Nexus' fault.. they havent got a clue.

[68904]

Once on a Green Express Charter starting at Leeds, with pick ups at Normington. The train was 12 coaches long, which is 720 feet.
At Normington, passengers have to cross the main line to acces the platform, and the platform could not accomodate this length of train.
Me and my driver got on the train at Leeds.
THe brake van where we loaded wheel chair passengers was next to the engine.
I arranged with the driver to stop short of the crossing, and we brought the disabled passengers in front of the train onto the platform.
We then brought the train on to the platform loaded, these wheelchairs through the double doors of the brake van, and completed the loading. After this was done we moved the whole train over the passenger crossing so we could load the rest of the passengers.
AS a result there were about 7 coach lengths of the train hung over the Wakefield end of the platform, with the rear coach just clear of the foot crossing at the Leeds end.
All these movements were done in complete safety by myself and the driver with the use of radios, and each of us knowing what we were going to do.
My driver and I had did this because this could have been my grandma, uncle, brother , mother or son, and that is what right people do. It perhaps delayed the train, but I was the guard, I was in charge and thats what we did.
When the train came back at night this would happen in reverse.
That is what you call customer care.
I think the train went down south somewhere and we bailed out at Doncaster.
Another good days work.
The brakevan on this train had a ramp as part of the equipment required the Railway Rule Book.
The loco was a Class 47 with ETH.

[Mrs_Ryan]

I havent got a clue about trains!!

But I wish there were more like you!

My mum got a letter back from Nexus after my sis-in-law sent them an email, and they were quite narky with her, saying it 'wasnt discrimination, it was health and safety.' Time for Round 2 methinks

[68904]

Ask these monkeys if they have done a risk assessment for wheel chairs et al.
If so request a copy.
All the stations, public building and other facilities must be made user friendly for disabled passengers.
Go to local paper/tv/thier managing director and really wind it into them with your compaint.
If you just sit back and accept what they do, we would still be paying bank charges.
Be like one Ceaser Milans dogs, as me old dad wouk say
" Shak em to bits. "
Big moto here, " THe pen is mighier than the sword . "
To quote Jonesy from Dads Army
" They dont like it up em......."
Take the dog of the leash and set it on em.

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[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Mrs_Ryan

I havent got a clue about trains!!

But I wish there were more like you!

My mum got a letter back from Nexus after my sis-in-law sent them an email, and they were quite narky with her, saying it 'wasnt discrimination, it was health and safety.' Time for Round 2 methinks

Ah! H&S......that old chestnut used by all & sundry to try & escape their responsibilities

The Metro is a public service & they have a strict duty not to discriminate against anyone & in particular the disabled. They cannot rely on H&S to avoid that duty.....they have to make an accommodating to suit all passengers & which complies with the H&S regulation..........just banning a certain user ain't gonna hack it for them I'm afriad.....or placing conditions on use which for some will be impossible to fulfil ain't going to either

Do as I suggest & complain to the authorities

[Mrs_Ryan]

Ive sent them another email pointing out there duty of care.... my mum knows a local councillor so shes talking to her about it. They chose to ignore my first letter... perhaps because they couldnt cope with the TRUTH??? the letter they sent back - part of which I quoted above, totally skirted the issue.

Ive already been published in the local paper... and my mum tells me there was allegedly a blockade of scooters arranged for yesterday which would have really hacked them off because Saturday afternoon is one of their busiest times.

Does anyone have any idea who else I could complain to? Which authorities would Nexus as a public transport operator be answerable to?

[citizenB]

Good luck with your protest. This is absolutely disgraceful. x

[Conniff]

The change in rules follows two recent incidents in which mobility scooters have struck the opposite doors after boarding Metro trains, with the users falling through onto the track and needing hospital treatment as a result

If this was allowed to continue though, I can see the headlines when an accident turns serious, 'They knew this could happen and still allowed scooters on'.

I don't really see how a walking person could stop them shooting forward into the doors.

As long as they are seriously looking at a way to stop it happening, then I think it is probably the right short term measure.

[68904]

On new rolling stock there are spaces provided for bike. motorcycles and wheel chairs.
A wheelchair/ scooter are about the same size, these can be accomodated in the vestibule end of the coach and the disabled person can either stop with the machine or be helped by the guard into a seat.
On most coaches, there are only 2 doors on each side of a coach., and enough room to stow a wheel chair/ scooter.
I have travelled thousands of miles whilst performing my duties as a guard, and in all that time 27 years, I have never seen any problems with wheelchair/ scooters.
The only problems have been made by bus conductors/ barrow boys who are running our trains to day.
You get more problems from silly 40 year old trainspotters who act like little spoilt brats.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Conniff

If this was allowed to continue though, I can see the headlines when an accident turns serious, 'They knew this could happen and still allowed scooters on'.

I don't really see how a walking person could stop them shooting forward into the doors.

As long as they are seriously looking at a way to stop it happening, then I think it is probably the right short term measure.

I see your happy for the disabled to be confined in their homes, even short term,.........The Metro is a vital transport system for Tyneside..... also accidents happen all the time & in this case there have had a grand total of two! on a system that's been operating for years............I'm sorry but if we followed your logic even the able bodied wouldn't leave their homes for fear of an accident

Mrs Ryan I have already suggested who you should complain to......they can & often do take firms to court if they refuse to comply

[Mrs_Ryan]

Thank you CB!

Conniff, the whole point is they arent really interested in looking at how to stop it happening! And thats what everyone is saying - how on earth can someone else stop them going through the doors?! Throw themselves in front of the scooter??? Yes you can yell stop but how on earth is this going to help??? The whole point is they wont strengthen the doors or anything... and Ive pointed out to them that a similar accident could happen with an electric wheelchair, or even *god forbid* a buggy. They are bleating that 'our doors are strong enough - its all the fault of the scooter users' but some of these carriages date from the early 1980's when scooters werent really around.

But theyre still allowing scooters on.... and the accidents werent even reported. i see your point but what I am also so annoyed about is that there is NO alternative transport for scooter users... they are not allowed on buses or local rail services... if they cared to bother making alternative allowances it wouldnt be so hard but they just dont care.

[Mrs_Ryan]

JonCris you are a star. i missed the link first time as my computer messed up!

Consider your scales clicked

[gni03349]

Caught this thread late, and many suggestions have been made, but the bottom line is, is that they are hiding behind the Health & Safety regulations, and as a result have broken Disability Discrimination Act laws.

If you shout loud enough, you may be able to force them to publicise the risk assesment they undertook (which, if they are abiding by the Health & Safety regs, they would have done). Then you can pick that to bits.

I see there isn't much mention of the ability of the transport (bus, train, tram etc etc) to actually withstand some kind of "knock". Granted, scooters and electric wheelchairs can be heavy, but then so could a 20-stone Geordie after a few drinks. Whats to stop him/her leaning on the doors and falling out the other side?!?! (apologies if anybody is offended by the last sentence)

Are the trains and trams actually fit for purpose, and was any mechanical check on the doors done undertaken after these two accidents happened? (I'm sure after these accidents happened, this was done, but as part of H&S which Nexus seem so keen on, have they been done on a regular basis?).

There could be more to it than meets the eye. These checks cost them money, while the vehicle is "off-the-road".

Just my thoughts on this matter.

[Conniff]

Originally Posted by JonCris

I see your happy for the disabled to be confined in their homes, even short term,.........The Metro is a vital transport system for Tyneside..... also accidents happen all the time & in this case there have had a grand total of two! on a system that's been operating for years............I'm sorry but if we followed your logic even the able bodied wouldn't leave their homes for fear of an accident

What a silly response. I have not said anything about 'confining them to their homes' and just because they can't go on a Metro doesn't mean they have to stay at home, so don't twist my words.

We don't have the Metro in my city and they don't have them in Dorset either, are all the disabled scooter owners in Dorset and around the rest of the country confined to their homes, no of course not.

The answer, as I said in my post, is for the company to take a serious look at adapting to eliminate the potential.
The public of Tyneside can only keep this in the public eye and ensure they don't drag their feet over doing so.

Accidents 'have' happened and you can't just ignore them. The next one could be serious or even end in death, you can't turn a blind eye to that and let the risk continue as if nothing had happened.
I would be up in arms if my scooter riding f-i-l had an accident of this nature and be filing court papers especially if the company knew it had happened in the past and continued to put the riders at risk.

[citizenB]

**blush** thank you Mrs Ryan.

Have you thought to lobby your local MP and contact the local tv network they usually follow up on public interest stories and this surely is one.

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[68904]

Forget the doors being iffy.
If these trains were old DMU's or MK1 or 2 coaches you may have a problem.
All coaches now have central locking, which secures the doors. The only way they can open is by with the guard/driver opening them.
If any door did open, which they wont, the train loses its brake and stops.
Central locking was introduced as a lot of folk were falling out of train doors.
Some heritage operators of early CS have had dispensation from from ORR to run trains without central locking. They have to have attendents in each vestibule end to stop this happening.

[EDIT]

[patdavies]

Presumably if a scooter user is required to be accompanied, then two scooter users could accompany each other.

[gni03349]

No need to shout 68904.

You know the in's and outs of trains.. great... we don't all know that though!

Can I respectfully ask that you edit your post to lower case, and not force your point, whether it's fact or not, with "is that clear???????????????" at the end.

Is that clear?

Pat... nice one lol

[Mrs_Ryan]

Wow, i didnt realise this would provoke such a debate!!!

Conniff. Are scooter users allowed to use other public transport in your area? Yes? Well, the Metro was the LAST form of public transport scooter users are allowed to use, effectively confining some people to their homes because they relied on the Metro to access local services - my mum for example used it to attend hospital appointments so she didnt take up an ambulance. Some people relied on it to go to the shops - for example it covers several rural areas where there is nothing for miles except the Metro so how do scooter users get to the shops?

pd - love ur comment thats a really good idea however they have said it has to be someone who can walk ....

68904 - the trains that run on Metro arent like conventional trains that run on main lines. They are rather like the london Underground in their layout and the doors are of a similar type.

CB - my mum is speaking to someone who lives in her street who is a local councillor and as far as i know (I live at the other end of the country so I only get updates from her via phone every evening ) this lady is speaking with the MP for the area so hopefully this will help. The local press are hot on the case (both me and my mum have been published in the paper voicing our extreme displeasure) I know local BBC have been on the case, I've just sent the second email to Nexus and Im getting in touch with the equality rights type people tomorrw. *phew*and thats no problem... everyone showing their support has been a great help to me its not easy trying to run this from the other end of the country

gni - the doors were tested after the accident as they were very quick to point out but thats an interesting point about whether they were tested regluarly. They claim that they can withstand force of one metric tonne but you were quite right in what you said.... whats to say... er... a larger person couldnt fall through them???

Nexus whole problem is they dont want to adapt.

There have been a worrying number of accidents on level crossings involving cars and Metros and yet nothing has been done to make them any safer. They arent it seems interested in adapting... they just want to make things easier for themselves.