Oyster Card Hell

[maf91]

i like oscar21's style of thinking. public transport in this country is a joke.

[Rob S]

This story may be of interest:-

BBC NEWS | England | London | Fine for 90p Oyster error quashed

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[Ted Glenn]

Horrid approach from tfl sound depressingly familiar...
Disastrous start to the bank holday weekend is a court summons for intent to avoid payment...
My husband got me an auto top up oyster to make my life a bit easier - stupid man! I got on a bus with pushchair and two children, swiped my card with over £20 credit, heard a beep and carried on. Later that journey, a ticket officer requested my ticket, which I gave her and she had informed me that I had not paid. I told her I had swiped it so she checked against the bus record and indeed it seems that it had not registered. I have no idea why - and suggested she take the payment. She then questioned me about the limited number of recent journeys - which seemed to convince her that I was a fare evader and the rest is all too predictable. I seem to be being persecuted for their system not registering my card properly and me not using their buses very often. Crazy?!
Whilst not filled with hope from the thread of avoiding a criminal record, I am furious that this can happen when I am completely innocent, and will take every action possible to fight the charge.

STOP PRESS
A big ray of light from Mr Usher's case reported on Friday - thanks Rob S! Looks just the same and I can't believe TFL came right out and issued another one the next day?! Feeling much better with some case law on my side and common sense from the Judge. About time TFL took stock of their stance rather than being 'disapointed'. They are a disgrace.

[LancerQRL]

it is your legal right to have a ticket. that is your proof of payment, if there is a doubt about your oyster card not being accepted by the machine then ask the driver/ conductor for a ticket to confirm payment. if they do not do this they are breaking the law, they must provide a ticket.

[Rob S]

When you go on the underground if your ticket is not valid or your Oyster card is not in credit then the barriers won't open. It makes you wonder why they don't have a similar system on the buses. That way if your ticket didn't register you would know there and then and you could swipe your card again to enable it to register.

[tfl_complaint]

Hi

[charlie7111]

I am being taken to court next week for attempting to use my mother's oyster card. Admittedly that was wrong but my action was due to the effects of powerful steroids I was taken at the time and this was backed up by my doctor's letters to TFL. My solicitor tried to reason with them stating that I had been in hospital with a debilitating illness and getting C. difficile whilst in there for 18 days, and was under a lot of mental and physical stress and so lacking judgment. Also that it was the first time I had been out in over 6 weeks. However, they think that after 3 weeks out of hospital I would have been fully recovered despite the fact that I was still on very high doses of steroids, had only just completed a course of iron tablets for the anemia and was still signed off work. They feel there is still a case to answer. It seems they don't care much for health professionals' opinions or medical evidence and is just hell bent on indiscriminate prosecuting.

[Maursh]

For a dishonesty crime, the prosecution needs to prove "mens rea" - guilty mind. If you are right, and they no longer need to prove intent to gain a successful prosecution for fare evasion then it can not be regarded as a dishonesty crime.

[tfl_complaint]

del

[kubota10_4]

Originally Posted by Lilp

Just thought I'd update you on this. I have managed to settle out of court, paying TFL costs (over £200 mind!!). I called the office of the prosecutions manager so many times and put forward my argument so persistently that they agreed to drop it.

My tactics were to write to the prosecutions manager, Steve Iontton, and then follow up with a phone call. Obviously, you don't get to speak with him but i did get the attention of a guy there who's email i subsequently got and basically plagued until he probably crawled bleary eyed to his bosses desk to plead that he make me stop. Dialogue with TFL is hard to engage in because they basically don't want to talk to anyone once they've issued a summons. Once the matter is settled, the costs payed and the case dropped, i'm going to post this one particular guy's details on this forum for all who are in a similar position to use.

I never had a problem with a fine, just the ridiculousness of a court case over a mistake and a £1 fare. Expensive lesson learnt!

Thanks to everyone on here for the advice.

I have exactly your problem. My Oyster card did not record my touching the reader and I was assumed to be a deliberate offender, with no possibility of any mechanical error. I had no idea that the decision about a Penalty Charge Notice or prosecution rests with the inspector who stopped me.
Like you I have been a regular user of public transport over many years, and have never had any trouble let alone a criminal record before.

I would very much like to try to bother TfL before I am due to appear in court, and am astonished to be in this position.

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[kubota10_4]

Originally Posted by kubota10_4

I have exactly your problem. My Oyster card did not record my touching the reader and I was assumed to be a deliberate offender, with no possibility of any mechanical error. I had no idea that the decision about a Penalty Charge Notice or prosecution rests with the inspector who stopped me.
Like you I have been a regular user of public transport over many years, and have never had any trouble let alone a criminal record before.

I would very much like to try to bother TfL before I am due to appear in court, and am astonished to be in this position.

P.S. Sorry, I meant to ask for your contact's details if possible please.

[Lilp]

I've sent you a personal message. Good luck.

[Lilp]

Originally Posted by kubota10_4

P.S. Sorry, I meant to ask for your contact's details if possible please.

Here is the guy that i resolved my issues with at TFL, and his contact details. The reason i'm posting them on this forum are because it is extremely difficult to get to talk to anyone at TFL about court summons and prosecutions in general, and he was a nice guy.

Tim Caig
Court Advocate/Prosecutions support manager
Internal Auto - 43691
External - 0207 918 3691
E-mail - TimCaig@tube.tfl.gov.uk

He was very helpful and I got the feeling that he was aware of a) the dubious nature of TFL's current campaign to punish absolutely everyone regardless, b) the flaws in Oyster technology, and c) the bad press that TFL are getting over this at present.

I should point out that my case was resolved 4 months ago so i don't know if he is still there. And i still had to pay costs!

Hope this helps all those that TFL are trying to prosecute for minor offences and/or mistakes or failure of Oyster technology.

Lilp

[ShootingStar]

WHAT WERE THE RESULTS, HOW MUCH DID U HAVE TO PAY? MY COURT CASE IS ON WEDNESDAY FOR USING SOMEBODY ELSE'S CARD WHICH I JUST HAPPENED TO FIND. tHAT GUY GOES TO MY COLLEGE, I'M SCARED THEY MIGHT KICK ME OUT!

Does anyone know how long it takes to get the results when pleading guilty and not attending the court case?

Don't try it!


[quote=charlie7111;1682304]I am being taken to court next week for attempting to use my mother's oyster card. Admittedly that was wrong but my action was due to the effects of powerful steroids I was taken at the time and this was backed up by my doctor's letters to TFL.

[Lilp]

Originally Posted by ShootingStar

WHAT WERE THE RESULTS, HOW MUCH DID U HAVE TO PAY? MY COURT CASE IS ON WEDNESDAY FOR USING SOMEBODY ELSE'S CARD WHICH I JUST HAPPENED TO FIND. tHAT GUY GOES TO MY COLLEGE, I'M SCARED THEY MIGHT KICK ME OUT!

Does anyone know how long it takes to get the results when pleading guilty and not attending the court case?

Don't try it!

I am being taken to court next week for attempting to use my mother's oyster card. Admittedly that was wrong but my action was due to the effects of powerful steroids I was taken at the time and this was backed up by my doctor's letters to TFL.

I paid £270 in court costs. If you're going to plead guilty try calling the guy I listed above to grovel your way out of it. You will get a criminal record if you plead guilty by post. Cite the doctor's letter when you speak to them. Ask them if they received it and if they have taken this into account. Chances are they know nothing about it, in which case take the line that if they are prepared to allege something so serious then the least they can do is take the time to consider the doctor's letter. Be polite, reason with them, apologise, offer the costs and don't complain that it's so much.

It worked for me, i hope it works for you.

[otg]

hi lilp
i just received a similar summons last week. do you think contacting your guy Tim Caig above can help me out too. my case that i had a valid oyster, but i didn't tap in. the inspector told me i would recieve a letter that asks me to explain why i didn't tap in, i never recieved such letter, now months later i get this summons. the bad thing for me is that i'm graduating from uni soon with a masters, now the job market is competitive enough, the last thing i need is a criminal record to go with. i haven't had a wink of sleep since receiving this letter last week. all these years spent studying will have gone to waste just for 90p.
i wouldn't mind paying a fair amount in fines in order to avoid a criminal record.

thanks in advance.

[Lilp]

Originally Posted by otg

hi lilp
i just received a similar summons last week. do you think contacting your guy Tim Caig above can help me out too. my case that i had a valid oyster, but i didn't tap in. the inspector told me i would recieve a letter that asks me to explain why i didn't tap in, i never recieved such letter, now months later i get this summons. the bad thing for me is that i'm graduating from uni soon with a masters, now the job market is competitive enough, the last thing i need is a criminal record to go with. i haven't had a wink of sleep since receiving this letter last week. all these years spent studying will have gone to waste just for 90p.
i wouldn't mind paying a fair amount in fines in order to avoid a criminal record.

thanks in advance.

You should have been sent a letter stating TFL's view of events and whether you had any comments to make. Phone that guy and explain that you never got that opportunity, that not swiping was an honest mistake and that you're sorry. Be nice, sound upset and regretful. Ultimately, you didn't pay the fare so a fine is to be expected. That said, this is where Oyster and their prosecutions are flawed - technically, if you don't swipe in it is meant to penalise you later by charging the maximum fare. Ask why this wasn't what happened in your case?
What i advise is that you offer costs, which at £270 are steep, but believe me, it's better than a criminal record. Good luck.

[otg]

thanks for the quick reply first of all. i had a word with him, he said doesn't deal with cases involving buses. he did however give me a number to contact, i did and i explained my case, that on the day of incident i was on my way back to uni in birmingham, i never got their letter, so he offered the option to pay 102 pounds and they'll withdraw the case. i should get the letter within two days. i can breath easy now.

thank you and everyone else on this forum.
btw anyone with similar case should call this number: 0207-918-3467

[Lilp]

Originally Posted by otg

thanks for the quick reply first of all. i had a word with him, he said doesn't deal with cases involving buses. he did however give me a number to contact, i did and i explained my case, that on the day of incident i was on my way back to uni in birmingham, i never got their letter, so he offered the option to pay 102 pounds and they'll withdraw the case. i should get the letter within two days. i can breath easy now.

thank you and everyone else on this forum.
btw anyone with similar case should call this number: 0207-918-3467

Nice work. Seems it's cheaper to get f**ked over a bus than a tube train, but well done - it's a relief isn't it!

[rst]

I have just had a similar situation on the buses. I didn't have enough money on my oyster to pay for the bus fare and was issued with a court summons. I called the prosecutions department at tfl and explained that it was an honest mistake, I was a student and that a criminal record would affect my chances of getting a job in the future due to one mistake. I was then told that if I paid an out of court settlement fee of £102, my case would be dropped.