Please help newbie versus national express trains

[bambino22]

Seven of my friends and i travelled from newcastle to london for the weekend. We were travelling on Time tickets given to us by another friend for my 40th birthday. We all travelled down together on fri 11.00am train and on Sunday 2nd dec got on 14.00 train. One person had the tickets.|The guard was over the moon when she discovered that only the top two tickets said 14.00 the 6 underneath were for the 13.00 train. We were all shocked at our stupidity for not checking all the tickets the guard showed no empathy what so ever and said you will have to pay up or get off the train. We had no cash left so asked if we could pay later because we were in first class she quoted about £150, we asked how much it we moved to standard she said £128. We were asked to give our details we which did not object to. This other guard joined her and started handing out scraps of paper. Details on here he demanded we asked why the paper why couldnt we wait while the other woman filled out the pad he then said if we refused he would call the police. He was agressive and bullying. he then demanded our dates of birth and some of us had written our title and initials Full name he demanded. We asked if we could check the tickets and copy the booking ref down she would not even let us look at the tickets again. We were then frogmarched out of first class and standard class was a nightmare. No seats were available there were people ripping reserved tickets from seats people arguing over seats. bodies all over.I spent until darlington sitting on my suitcase outside a leaking loo. Journey from hell. I have written to now Nat express to complain about our treatment but to no avail. They have reduced the fare to £95.00 but considering our treatment and the fact i didnt have a seat or pleasant journey i think this is excessive considering there are 6 of us thats £600! They are now threatening legal action. I totally realise that we were on the wrong train although there is no way i would have boarded the train had i realised before hand and if i had managed to sit near or with friends and had a pleasant end to an otherwise great weekend i would not have so much objection to paying but my experience of those two guards was enough to stop me travelling with the company again. Could anybody advise me of what if anything to do next?

[saintly_1]

Hi and welcome to CAG

I will ask for this to be moved to the public transport forum whare you will get better advised

saint

[rory32]

Thread moved to Public Transport Forum.

[Carriep]

Hi,

I work for a BBC1 consumer affairs programme called "Don't Get Done, Get Dom", in which presenter Dominic Littlewood attempts to resolve issues that have arisen between consumers and companies.

Having read your story, we would be extremely keen to hear from you to see if there is anything we might be able to do to help.

If you would like to talk to us, please get in touch at:

dom@flametv.co.uk
02072785052

Thanks very much,

Robert Gershinson
Don’t Get Done, Get Dom (BBC1)

[MilkTrayMan]

Hello bambino22!

The guard was perfectly entitled to ask U to reveal your FULL name + address.
Relevant Sections of the Railways Act 1993

WHY would U have expected to have remained seated in 1st Class whilst NOT in possession of ANY valid ticket, when there was acute seating difficulties in 2nd Class, for even those peeps who had bona fide 2nd Class tickets??...

Do U NOT consider that by having several NON-PAYING 'Stowaways' aboard the Train, that this would have added to the overcrowding difficulties for those that HAD already paid to travel??

The guard was quite within his rights to have had U dis-embarked at the NEXT station stop, but probably, in the interests of GOOD customer Service, chose to allow U to continue to travel on the train to your destination.
...+ U demand an apology from the Train Operating Company for this kindly gesture??...


...

[crh]

Originally Posted by MilkTrayMan

Do U NOT consider that by having several NON-PAYING 'Stowaways' aboard the Train, that this would have added to the overcrowding difficulties for those that HAD already paid to travel??

Funny that if you actually read her post MTM you'll find they had actually paid for tickets but they travelled at the wrong time. I'm assuming your own self-righteousness prevented you from processing that bit of infomation

Too be honest this incident dosent suprise me. I've been travelling on SWT with a season ticket into london now for many years. I've seen lots of incidents with SWT and there revenue protection officers or heavies as i call them. From reducing a 13 year old schoolgirl to tears because she had forgotten her travel card and the RPO told her he was reporting her to british transport police because she wouldnt give him her name or address. I guess her mum had warned her of giving her address to strangers. To giving two pensioners £20 penalty fare's each because had bought tickets with a discount in advance and didnt have there passes.

Nice morals MTM. From reading your posts i'm wondering if your now a employee of a DCA because i'm sure you'd fit in well there.

Revenue Protection officers are a waste of time and money. To justify there own jobs and salarys they have to tax the ordinary traveller for minor infractions. Yes MTM i do agree with you that everyone should buy a ticket. But everyone should be given a fair chance to buy one which isnt the case with train companies these days. It really annoys me that they quote the railway bylaws chapter and verse that are a legacy from BR.

[Bigmac versus]

I suppose all would depend on how the situation unfolded, was the 1st class busy?
With the real possibility of the gaurds removing the passengers at the next stop the gaurds have not been that heavyhanded however if the 1st class was able to cope with them then common sense should have been used and the situation seen in the way it actually was..........a mistake, nothing more nothing less.
The question needs to be asked however.....

Do the gaurds gain financially from such actions or not?
Shame on the gaurds in my opinion as they should be able to see when people are abusing the system and in this case it looks genuine enough.

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by crh

Funny that if you actually read her post MTM you'll find they had actually paid for tickets but they travelled at the wrong time.
6 out of 8 tickets were invalid for the train in which they were travelling on.
Therefore 6 out of 8 people had NOT PAID to travel on that train + were NON-PAYING passengers.

I'm assuming your own self-righteousness prevented you from processing that bit of infomation
My personal views are by the by, the law is quite clear with regards NOT having a valid ticket for travel.
Btw...I'm assuming that English ISN'T your first language.

Too be honest this incident dosent suprise me. I've been travelling on SWT with a season ticket into london now for many years. I've seen lots of incidents with SWT and there revenue protection officers or heavies as i call them. From reducing a 13 year old schoolgirl to tears because she had forgotten her travel card and the RPO told her he was reporting her to british transport police because she wouldnt give him her name or address. I guess her mum had warned her of giving her address to strangers. To giving two pensioners £20 penalty fare's each because had bought tickets with a discount in advance and didnt have there passes.
The OP has an issue with National Express. It is a seperate commercial entity to SWT, which is owned by Stagecoach.
As U are probably aware, Stagecoach has had a rather chequered history when it comes to operating practices + is by NO MEANS indicative of general policies used by other Train Operating Companies throughout the rest of the country.
Furthermore, as U have stated, U are a SWT Season Ticket Holder.
Annual Season Tickets are priced so that the Holder pays for ONLY 40weeks travel out of 52, thus enjoying 3 months 'FREE' travel, as well as any other freebie that comes with it...i.e. Reduced ticket rate for accompanying adults/children Off Peak etc etc.
YOUR Season Ticket is classed as a regulated fare + it's benefits are directly subsidised by the likes of the OP, who may be only an ocassional train traveller + therefore would have to pay a higher non-regulated fare under the de-regulated franchise system, which a Conservative government originally set up.

Nice morals MTM. From reading your posts i'm wondering if your now a employee of a DCA because i'm sure you'd fit in well there.
My morals are always 'nice' crh. So much so, that if U had bothered to read ALL 4,487 Posts of mine (...to date), U would have seen that. I have been more altruistic than some others I could care to mention (...your self for instance... ) + have tried to assist other people with their Consumer problems, with the knowledge that I have gained throughout my life.
I don't deliberately mislead others, nor make crass statements without substance.
U don't seem to have read many of my Posts re: DCA advice have U crh?!...

Revenue Protection officers are a waste of time and money.
Another crass statement.

To justify there own jobs and salarys they have to tax the ordinary traveller for minor infractions.
Your view of train travel is predominantly with SWT.
This is runs mainly suburban + regional services, with fairly frequent station stops.
Stagecoach commercial practices have already been mentioned.
South West Trains > Ticket to ride
The OP has an issue with National Express East Coast, which is an InterCity service + is a totally different kettle of fish.
I think that U are confusing Penalty Fares, with having to pay the FULL Open Single or Return Fare, which it would seem that the OP was initially asked to pay.


Yes MTM i do agree with you that everyone should buy a ticket.
There is NO should about it.
The law clearly states that I person MUST be in possession of a valid ticket BEFORE boarding a train, unless certain conditions apply...i.e NO Booking Office at the departure station etc.
The OP had pre-booked tickets so there would have been NO such excuse.
By purchasing time specific (...+ no doubt also Operator specific) tickets, the OP would have enjoyed a substantial discount off the price of a 'walk on' fare.
Unfortunately, this comes at a price, if like the OP, there is a complete disregard of the conditions of the ticket.
What any sensible person would have done was to double check at the station BEFORE boarding the train, if the earlier time train was missed.
This would have shown that there MAY have been a genuine hardluck case at the very FIRST OPPORTUNITY + the extra payment MAY have been waived, or MAYBE just a small supplement levied.
Unfortunately for the OP, it would look to the Guard that there had been a deliberate attempt to circumvent the conditions of the tickets held because of this lack of foresight.
It would be extremely hard to argue that the OP could NOT have sorted things out prior to boarding the particular London bound train which they did, given the size of Newcastle railway station + the amount of daily trains to London.

But everyone should be given a fair chance to buy one which isnt the case with train companies these days.
A crass statement yet again, for the reasons previously mentioned above.

It really annoys me that they quote the railway bylaws chapter and verse that are a legacy from BR.
...+ YOUR problem with living in a democratically elected country is exactly what, Mr. Angry from Surbiton??...

I find crh's Post TOTALLY unhelpful to the OP + in no way contributes to solving the OP's dilema.
It is MORE concerned at personally attacking anyone + everyone who does NOT agree with crh's ill informed views.

I believe that NEEC has attempted to to address the OP's concerns, by already reducing the amount that it requires from them, to prevent legal action being brought and would advise the OP to pay the required sum asap despite STILL feeling aggrieved.
If the matter was to continue to court, the OP would stand to have to also pay prosecution costs as well.

It SHOULD be remembered, that it wasn't NEEC's fault that the OP didn't travel on the 'correct' train + perhaps should also serve as a warning to others who seek out 'discounted' fares...to look at the small print BEFORE U travel!...


...

[Bigmac versus]

Please refrain from personal attacks. The OP has not been back since putting this thread up on the 2nd Feb and has probably resolved this situation.

[crh]

LOL! Someones spat there dummy out of the pram or would the penalty charges notebook across the carriage be more apt MTM!

Couple of points to note

1. Btw...I'm assuming that English ISN'T your first language.
Actually english is my first language i do speak intalian conversationally but thats another story . I can safely make this assumption as i write you properly. Not U which is frequently mispelled across all 4.487 posts you have made to date.

2. Annual Season Tickets are priced so that the Holder pays for ONLY 40weeks travel out of 52, thus enjoying 3 months 'FREE' travel, as well as any other freebie that comes with it...i.e. Reduced ticket rate for accompanying adults/children Off Peak etc etc.
YOUR Season Ticket is classed as a regulated fare + it's benefits are directly subsidised by the likes of the OP, who may be only an ocassional train traveller + therefore would have to pay a higher non-regulated fare under the de-regulated franchise system, which a Conservative government originally set up.
My season ticket isnt the issue at hand here. I can't see how it helps the original poster by you explaining how the season ticket system works. You make it sound like i'm cheating the system by only paying for 40 weeks travel.

Revenue Protection officers are a waste of time and money.
Another crass statement.
Lets say on average that a RPO is paid 18k a year basic. Thats £1170 take home pay which to be honest isnt that much considering the cost of things these's days. At a minimum they would have to issue 58.8 penalty fare's a month to cover there own cost to the train company. This is about 3 penalty fare's a day or 2.94 if you want to be exact. We live in a capitalist country and there is probably a bean counter somewhere with that exact data. I can't belive for one minute that train companys that are essential out to make money would have employee's that would lose them money.

...+ YOUR problem with living in a democratically elected country is exactly what, Mr. Angry from Surbiton??..
Actually i have no problem with living in a democratically elected country MTM. What i do have a problem with is (edited) baron train companies and there "heavies"
Actually i dont live in surbiton nor is my last name angry. What your actually doing is sterotyping me against your own views which suggested you are as equally crass and judgemental as your barracking me for

To be honest i dont have time to continue in your cyber war,

[Bigmac versus]

Can we leave it at that then.