Penalty Charges on Trains

[Pen]

Then I would be worried about a court fine as you will have a crimminal record if you get one. It seems to me your only way out of it is to defend it to the hilt.

[JOSH_IOU]

Originally Posted by tomterm8

it's a real pity that you admitted sonmething you basically didn't do... however, until you recieve a penalty notice or summons, there is really not much you can do.

I agree

[JOSH_IOU]

Originally Posted by Pen

Then I would be worried about a court fine as you will have a crimminal record if you get one. It seems to me your only way out of it is to defend it to the hilt.

If you are summoned.

Just out of interest What was the cost of the fine?

Was it the same as the fare?

[tomterm8]

Originally Posted by Pen

Then I would be worried about a court fine as you will have a crimminal record if you get one. It seems to me your only way out of it is to defend it to the hilt.

I think it's rather too early to say as yet... there are two methods they can use; sending you a penalty notice, and/or sending a summons. in most cases they send you a penalty notice which costs £20+admin fee + ticket price... so maybe £60. If they do this, then you should pay it. In that case, I don't think you get a criminal record.

If they do decide to prosecute you, and you settle out of court, there will be no criminal record.

[Pen]

My Son was prosocuted by the RTP for having his feet on a seat. he was summoned but managed to get the duty solicitor involved and therefore reached an out of court settlement. but after all the recent press relating to penalty chargers I have to say that I would take my chances and fight it. As yet the RWs have never taken anyone to court for penalty fees.

Please note I am not saying that's what you should do, you have to do what's right for you.
Good Luck in whatever way you go.

[tomterm8]

Um, i disagree.

The rail bylaws are fairly clear, and it is a criminal offence. The penalty fee argument is irrelevant, because there is actually a criminal penalty set by parliament.

[Pen]

Ok So, as I have said, my station is always closed it's a very small station hardly ever used. So whenever I board a train I have to do so knowing I haven't got a ticket. My conductor knows this about our station so when on board he just takes the normal fare, however it for some reason there was a new conductor on the day I was traveling and he did not know about my station would I have to except the fine, Hmm so how I don't think so as it was not my intention to board a train without paying for a vaild ticket. There were no aminities at the station for me to buy one. Had the booth been open and i delibratly avoided paying that would have been a different matter.

I would argue intent and a guilty mind if you intended to fraud then yes except the penalty but if that was not your intent don't.

- 'An act does not make a person legally liable unless the mind is legally blameworthy'.

[newfoundglory]

Actually, AFAIK penalty fares can only be issued on-the-spot by a person authorised to do so. They cannot be issued retrospectively after the event.

Penalty fares are a disputed civil liability or debt, and are to be recovered through the civil courts (not the criminal courts). This is why penalty fares have never been challenged in the courts. Also, its a "one or the other", in order to prevent double liability. If you pay a Penalty fare, and are then later prosecuted you are no longer liable to pay the penalty and would be due an immediate refund of said penalty.

My point was that, although technically an strict liability offence had likely been committed under bylaws for which no intent has to be proven, the poster should defend any prosecution under Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (as amended).

In this case, an out-of-court settlement would likely be able to be reached for maybe £50 to £150 in order to cover case processing and/or court costs up to that point.

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by newfoundglory

i'm not a lawyer, so i'm posting for information and entertainment purposes only. do not assume anything i have said is correct.

Enough said!...

[MrBloom]

Hi Guys,

Back in September I was cautioned by SWT trains in south London, and had a statement taken. I was caught without a ticket and was found to have given incorrect details. Before giving incorrect details (regrettable) I offered to pay 50% of the penalty fee, which I had in cash and they would then send me a bill for the remaining balance, this is when the incorrect details were given and the situation spiralled out of control

I received a letter from the prosecutions department in November asking to verify and confirm my name and address, NI number, DOB etc, which I supplied them with. They also asked for any mitigating circumstances. Quite frankly I didn’t have any mitigating circumstances, except that this was the first time this has happened to me and I normally pay my fares.

Essentially my question is this, I have been preparing myself for the worst, essentially a criminal record and some sort of fine. But what I’m not happy about is how long I’ve been left in limbo not knowing. Its coming up to 6 months since the incident, do any of you fair minded people know how slow/fast the wheels of the SWT prosecutions department work??

[Pen]

what a hard lesson to learn. I don't think they will be in a rush to prosecute you as it is only a petty offence however I don't think they will forget it either looks like you will just have to wait it out I'm afraid. When my son was prosecuted for having his foot on a seat it took about 3 months I think.

[jimmylesaint]

Quite frankly it amazes me why people pay train fares!! Don't get me wrong, i play rugby and am squashed and sweaty and hot during the game, i do this for recreational fun.#I don't pay an absurd amount to be squashed up and standing just to get to work and back. Make a stand!
Surely any public demand of the penalty that causes humiliation, stress etc......

[JOSH_IOU]

Originally Posted by MilkTrayMan

Totally irrelevant!!!

A Passenger has a duty to have in his /her possession, a valid ticket for his/her entire journey BEFORE he/she boards a train.

The ONLY exception to this would be if he/she boarded at a station where ticket purchases are unavailable...i.e NO ticket office/ticket issuing machine.

If this is the case, it is the passengers responsibility to obtain a valid ticket at THEIR 1st reasonable opportunity...i.e From an onboard Train Manager/Guard etc, or at a suitable Ticket Office, either at their destination, or preferably, whilst changing trains en route.

Whilst acknowledging that it is quite possible to 'ARRIVE' at a Penalty Fare Station, from a NON-Penalty Fare Station, the passenger has usually had the chance of obtaining a valid ticket + so your initial statement does NOT hold true.

...Unless U are inferring that U are personally aware of a Penalty Fare Station that has NO signage to this effect??...

MT since when has it been the duty of an English citizen to not protest?

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by JOSH_IOU

MT since when has it been the duty of an English citizen to not protest?

Since the population achieved Universal Sufferage + there became democratic means to voice one's opinions about the Laws of the Land...

[JOSH_IOU]

lol I rest my case

[Pen]

ha ha ha

[Gary29]

Castlebest If I was "fair dodging" why would I go to buy a ticket as soon as I arrived? It just made the rail staff and the company look very petty and confirmed my "jobswo