Constructive dismissal? - ** SETTLED **

[dj1971]

I have been full time employed for the past 20 months as an office worker.

 

The first 12 months of my employment went relatively well as I was an absolute beginner and had never worked in a similar role before. It was not until I started to gain confidence and ability to do my job unaided the problems started.

 

My line manager would pick up on every little thing I had not completed to their satisfaction. Then gradually things got worse as my confidence grew and I started taking on new tasks. My manager would obstruct me at every possible opportunity and never ever gave feedback when I had done something well.

 

These relatively minor things built up until it started to have an effect on my health. I have suffered from a mental health condition since the age of 16 and had notified my line manager of this during my probationary period. I was having to take time off on work leave, visits to my gp were more frequent and eventually my medication was increased.

 

All attempts at excelling within my role were obstructed by my line manager at every possible opportunity. They became a bit of a jekyll & hyde character, acting all sweetness and nice to your face most of the time, but present any kind of alternative argument on something, or probe them and something and the switch was instant. My manger became loud, aggressive and intimidating in an instant and usually for very minor things.

 

This is all having more and more of an impact on my mental health and I am having to take more and more time off on sick leave. Eventually my Dr prescribed some anti anxiety medication after one particularly vicious verbal attack from the manager of my line manager, which result in me having a full blown panic attack.

 

During this period my father passed away and following his death my family became particularly nasty towards me. Obviously this too had a big impact on me, but I made my manager aware of the situation and what was going on.

 

The Jekyll & Hyde split personality in my manager is becoming more apparent as despite everything that is going on I continue to excel within my role and am now having a significantly positive impact in my role. Any and all attempts at making decisions for myself, acting on my own initiative, taking on of tasks outside my responsibility are now being met with an extreme and adverse reaction from my manager. Their true character is coming through now and the office has become a very uncomfortable place to be.

 

I tried talking to my manager about their behaviour and this had exactly the opposite effect as to the one I had hoped for. The bullying, abuse, insults and jumping on any opportunity to put me down at any opportunity is now common practice. Things got so bad that not knowing what else to do I submitted a formal grievance, the outcome of which was no case to answer, your manager has done nothing wrong. I then submitted an appeal against the grievance outcome which was allegedly investigated and subsequently rejected.

 

During the grievance procedure my employer requested I go for an independent medical assessment which I agreed to. The report diagnosed me as suffering from severe anxiety and stress caused by the situation at work. Of course my employers did not like that and are now trying to have the report amended.

 

As a direct result of my employers refusal to even admit there is a problem, let alone do something about it I feel they have effectively given my manager catblanche to treat me and anyone else in their team as they see fit. The effect on my mental health has been significant and I have decided in the interests of self preservation there is no way I can return to work and have given my notice of resignation with immediate effect, which of course they have gratefully accepted.

 

I want to claim constructive dismissal and would appreciate any help/guidance anyone can offer, particularly with completing the EA claim form ET1.

 

Many thanks

 

DJ

[dmlferguson]

I know others will be able to help you more but I'd stress that quitting isn't a great thing to do as Constructive Dismissal is hard to prove. Secondly make sure you have a diary of every single thing that happens including how it makes you feel. If you need to, go back to your doctors and have time off work. I got to the panic attack stages and had to admit defeat. Stay strong but don't let it make you iller.

 

Good luck

[dj1971]

Thanks dml,

 

Is good to know I am not the only one going through this and it is not all a figment of my imagination which senior management would have me believe.

 

I have already resigned from my employment as of 2 days ago. For my own sake and due to the severe impact on my mental health there is no way I could have gone back to work there. The behaviour of my manager towards me has already had a significant impact on my mental health and I feel I just could not take anymore, so was left with no choice but resign.

 

Many thanks

DJ

[lbruk]

Hi,

 

the problem with constructive dismissal is that an event happens, you have to go there and then. Thinking about it and stewing over it actually means it isn't constructive (more or less).

 

However we seem to have a whole new ball park area to have fun with and that the Disability Discrimination that seems to appear here. As you have been suffering since you were 16, it appears to have a severe adverse effect on you, whether it affects you outside work isn't really clear.

 

The more I read on these forums the more I cant wait until I finish my law degree and get at some of this disgusting behavior! So, I believe that you have raised a grievance, did you appeal that? If the grievance was a while ago, then raise a new grievance and make sure it contains as much evidence as you can muster. Dont resign, as you loose a lot of rights once you resign.

 

By all means if you feel you cannot work there then speak to your GP about potentially declaring you unfit for work.

[goboy]

Bear in mind if you have too much time off due to disability I think they can sack you legally on capabilities. I hope I am wrong and someone will let you know for sure. :???:

[dj1971]

Just to clarify, I have already resigned.

 

Rightly or wrongly in terms of building a case I have resigned and there is nothing can be done about that. So please stop advising me not to resign as it is now too late for that.

 

I did submit a grievance and then appealed the grievance outcome which was "no case to answer". Had a meeting with regional general manager last Thursday 30th May during which he advised he was rejecting my appeal as there is no case to answer.

 

Generally outside of work my mental health condition is very well managed with medication and I am lucky to have an excellent relationship with my GP.

 

The impact of my ex manager's behaviour and senior management's refusal to take action has been severe. I am unable to sleep properly, waking several times during the night and waking up more tired than when I went to bed. Just recently I am also having vivid dreams and nightmares about returning to work there.

 

My now ex employer are well aware of the impact all of this has had on me and have done nothing.

 

As a result I felt there was no alternative but to resign, following their rejection of my appeal which effectively gave my ex manager catblanche to treat me anyway they see fit. It would have been suicidal to return to work surely?

 

I have this afternoon contacted my GP who has arranged to see me this evening as an emergency appointment, will see what they have to say also.

 

DJ

[stu007]

Hi

 

Its so nice to see that the Company were following there "Health and Wellbeing Policy" not, write and ask them for it.

[dmlferguson]

Whats done is done, but you need to make sure you fight for what is right from now on.

 

I'd get to a solicitor asap and see what they say.

 

Good luck

[dj1971]

Thanks everyone,

 

I spoke with a "legal advisor" from a probably well known advice helpline last week and was advised I do not have a case for disability discrimination. But this did not seem right to me how they could decide I have no case after 1 telephone call lasting about 2 minutes.

 

So I took it upon myself to do some research over the weekend. Being quite encouraged by what I had found out I called another discrimination helpline and the outcome was completely different. The call handler evidently knew what they were talking about and actually listened to what I had to say, rather than hearing the first two sentences and interrupting me deciding they already know the answer without me explaining the full story.

 

Anyway it appears I may have a case for both constructive dismissal and disability discrimination, the ultimate decision on whether there is a case being with the employment tribunal of course. But at least I have had much better advice this time and have had confirmation it would not be a complete waste of time completing a claim to the employment tribunal. Cannot express how much better I feel today knowing that I am at least in with a shot of exposing my former manager and the company for what they are and at least put the wind up them by submitting a claim.

 

Where I really could use some help from you guys is in completing the ET1 form. I have over the past nine months kept a diary of events and have no problem writing these down to paint a picture on the claim form. However 1 section of the forms asked what I expect to gain from this process in terms of resolution. There is no way on this earth I would go back to work for my ex employer, so resolution would have to come in the form of compensation.

 

Does anyone have any serious and realistic advice or suggestions on how much I should be claiming, or even from where I can get some guidance on how much I should be claiming?

 

Really appreciate any serious help or guidance anyone can offer.

 

 

Regards

DJ

[stu007]

Hi dj

 

It may also be useful to have a chat with the Equalit and Human Rights commission and here is the link:

 

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/

[dj1971]

Many thanks Stu,

 

They were actually the really helpful ones I spoke with today.

 

Unfortunately though they were not able to offer any advice on amount of compensation I should be claiming.

 

DJ

[dj1971]

Hi all,

 

Have now telephoned so many helplines including ACAS & Employment Tribunal helpline but not one seems to be able to help me with completing the ET1 claim form.

 

I have already gathered I do not at this stage need to complete the section of the form asking what I am looking for as resolution. The part I am now struggling with is section 5.2 "background and details of the claim". I started off completing this part with every detail ie on this day he was looking for such and such a document but I could not find it, then he said, then, I said, then someone else got involved and said, then he went back to speak with someone else, then I said, then he said............ There have been so many incidents I have already got to 10 A4 pages of additional information and still not completed.

 

My question: is it completely necessary to go into comprehensive detail about who said what to whom, or can I summarise the key points with something like he was rude and humiliated me in front of my colleagues, so I felt intimidated, threatened and humiliated.

 

Appreciate you thoughts and experience, especially from those who have already submitted their own ET1 form, or experience in helping others complete theirs.

 

Many thanks

DJ

[lbruk]

comprehensive is better, what you might want to do is work out why you are disabled and how it affected you, and when they knew about it, how many times you told them, if you raised issues when and was it formally/informally everything like that is really useful for you.

 

ET1 is better brief, listing what has gone wrong, why and brief examples for your proof. The ET1 gives a taster to the ET and then your statement fiils in all the detail.

[dj1971]

Hi All,

 

Have been working away on the ET1 and had a few days break away to clear my head and have a rest.

 

Believe I have now completed the ET1 and am ready to submit it. The method I have used is in section 5 to state the laws my ex employer have breached, when and how the breach occurred. Then in section 7 I have listed in chronological order the incidents which occurred with a brief outline of what happened and how it affected me.

 

Is this an acceptable approach to completing form ET1, or should I be taking a different approach?

 

Am really keen to get the form submitted and out of the way, so would really appreciate any advice/guidance anyone can offer

 

Many thanks

DJ

[lbruk]

yes that sounds about right, section 5 is continued in section 7 so they need to be coherent.

[dj1971]

ET1 completed & submitted for better or worse, out of my hands now.

 

Is such a good feeling to have started the ball rolling.

 

DJ

[honeybee13]

ET1 completed & submitted for better or worse, out of my hands now.

 

Is such a good feeling to have started the ball rolling.

 

DJ

 

I can imagine. Fingers crossed for you and please let us know how it's going and obviously come back if you need more advice.

 

My best, HB

[dj1971]

Hi All,

 

Just a very quick update on my case.

 

Have submitted ET1 which has been acknowledged and accepted by ET.

 

Received letter and then email just yesterday from conciliator at ACAS notifying me of their appointment to my case and offering help.

 

My former employer have until 31st July to submit their ET3 form.

 

Is just a waiting game now to see whether ex employer submit a defence and if they do, what it will be.

 

Still suffering from the effects of all this and being closely monitored by my GP who has been absolutely fantastic. Referred me for CBT as she feels that will really help with the nightmares and lack of proper sleep.

 

Will of course update you guys as things develop and shout if I need any help.

 

Best Wishes

dj1971

[lbruk]

Good luck, are you representing yourself?

[dj1971]

Thanks Ibruk.

 

Yes I am representing myself, so no doubt will be back before long looking for help.

 

DJ

[lbruk]

Thats fine - I represented myself through disability discrimination and constructive dismissal tribunal.

 

Sit back and wait now for about 6 weeks for the respondent to reply. The tribunal can be a little slow getting that copy to you, so in six weeks if you haven't heard anything i would suggest phoning and asking about it. With mine they emailed it immediately to me after i called, where as the paper copy took another 6 weeks to arrive!

[dj1971]

Thank you.

 

May I ask, did you go through the conciliation process with acas and if so how did you work out how much to ask for?

 

DJ

[dj1971]

I have received my employers response in their ET3 form.

 

My employer has been so predictable in their response. Deny everything, admit nothing, tell some lies and then deny some more.

 

There is one paragraph at the end of the form I am struggling with and am hoping someone can help me with.

 

Do not want to type the exact text on a public forum, though it goes along the lines of:

 

We deny unfair dismissal. If we did unfairly dismiss the claimant we will say that the claimant was dismissed either for some other substantial reason (SOSR) and/or for the claimants lack of capability.

 

Then they go on to stay words to the effect of:

 

Should the ET find against us we will say the claimants employment would have been terminated in any event of either or both SOSR and/or the claimants lack of capacity whatever procedure had been followed. Also, given the extent of claimants unreasonable behaviour, it is inevitable that we would have had reason to dismiss the claimant anyway.

 

Have they just admitted that even if I had not been unfairly dismissed, they would have sacked me anyway for lack of performance or SOSR? because I have never had any disciplinary for alleged unreasonable behaviour, been spoken to about alleged unreasonable behaviour or had any disciplinary action taken against me for alleged unreasonable behaviour.

 

BTW: Unreasonable behaviour they refer to in the claim form is bringing a grievance against my employer and alledging he is a bully.

 

Appreciate any thoughts feedback.

 

DJ

[becky2585]

Basically, SOSR is a standard secondary defence. Usually, an employer will use this as a "catch all" in case their primary defence on capability grounds fails. It leaves the Tribunal open to a finding that the employment relationship had no way of continuing, whether this meant a dismissal or resignation.

 

It's important to understand the legal principle underpinning constructive dismissal. It is still technically an unfair dismissal claim, which means that it's possible a tribunal could find that a constructive dismissal occurred, but that this was fair. It's an odd thing to get your head round, but basically, if you resigned but they would have dismissed you for capability or SOSR anyway, it could still be lawful. In the alternative, you could win, but have your compensation limited to three months (the time a capability process would have taken).

 

There is case law behind their suggestion that a grievance raised in bad faith could justify a SOSR dismissal (constructive or otherwise), but the reality is that is would probably be a difficult defence to run (unless you had behaved unreasonably or in the event that the ET dislikes you as a witness, then this could give them an excuse to find against you).

 

In short, these are standard arguments which an ET will see through if evidence supports your claim. They are arguing that eider you were fairly dismissed, or if you win, that your compensation should be reduced to nil or capped to reflect any potential capability procedure.

[dj1971]

Thanks Becky,

 

That makes it much clearer.

 

Though they would never have had any grounds to dismiss me for capability or SOSR as they have never raised any issues with my capability.

 

In fact I was doing so well in the job, changes things to allow them to work better, investigating discrepancies that had been outstanding for years and no one had ever bothered looking into, recovering substantial amounts of outstanding debts. That was part of their problem with me, I was doing too well in the job and uncovering issues with other people's work which they really did not like.

 

Seems odd I know that my employer would have a problem with me uncovering unsatisfactory work and improving processes, however that's how it was at my place of work. My manager felt threatened by my abilities and really did not want me to look good in front of his manager.

 

DJ1971