Overnight stays on company business.

[wijit]

Good Friday Ladies and gentlemen,

A couple of wee ago I was aked to go to see a machine on another site (the site in question is the company who are manufacturing the machine for my employers, not otherwise connected to my employers) As this was a good distance away, my employers booked a hotel room for one night for myself and three colleagues (they are salaried, whereas I am paid by the hour, weekly) We left at 5pm on a Sunday and didn't return until 10pm on the Monday. At the moment my hours are 8-4:30 Monday to Friday.

I questioned whether I should receive pay for the time away from home, but all my employers have said is that I could have an afternoon off in lieu.

Personally, I do not feel this is fair but as the employee, I would feel that way.

I don't expect to be paid for 24 hours, but do think the five hours from 5-10pm both days should be paid as I was off site, away from home (during school holidays!) and on company business.

Could anyone offer advice as to how this stands legally, ideally with detail of what I should quote?

If they are absolutely, legally, right then that is as it is and I wouldn't expect them to do any more.

[Rab]

Not a legal answer but what I would say is that an afternoon off in lieu is a bargain for staying away for 24hrs.

 

At present I get 0.5day's holiday for every WEEK I work away.

[becky2585]

I don't think you have any legal recourse here. I wouldn't get paid, or any time off in lieu, for staying away overnight - sometimes, it just goes with the job.

 

Check your contract - unless it states you will be paid for time away, I don't think there's much you can do - also check the overtime policy.

[Emmzzi]

were you *working* all that time or travelling?

[mariefab]

If you were paid from 8.00-4.30 for the Monday + an afternoon off in lieu; that seems reasonable.

Unless the time you spent *working* (as Emmzzi asked) was >12 hours.

[wijit]

Good afternoon all.

Thank you for your replies, they are much appreciated even if they don't give me an answer I was hoping for.

For clarification, and background;

As it is, I normally work shifts of 12 hours (2 on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, 3 off) all 7am-7pm. Those are my contraced hours. However, I have been taken off those for project work and am currently doing 8-4:30, no weekends.

We travelled to the other place at 5pm on the Sunday and arrived at approximately 8pm.

7:30 am we set off for the other company, arriving there at approximately 8am and left at around 7pm arriving back at my place of employment at 10pm on the Monday night.

I did not ask, nor volunteer for any of the above, especially as the shifts I normally do are quite favourable in school holidays.

As for being paid for 8-4:30 on the Monday, surely that should be a given, as I was working in any case during that time? It is the time outside of those hours which has caused considerable inconvenience (not to mention unsettling domestic silence!).

My contract doesn't even mention going away, as my job is solely on the factory floor. If I am operating a machine at work, I have no need to be going anywhere overnight.

[transient]

Well my first question would be how many hours travelling? I would look to get this back and nothing else. But as you have mentioned there were two other salaried people who done the same what did they get extra or in Lieu? This is what I would say you would be a bargaining point as such and not by law. Again as mentioned you will need to look at your contract as therein would be the answer.

[wijit]

Good afternoon transient, my other colleagues are salaried, but I am not. Only one of them took the time off in lieu, I don't know what the other did but the third one, I have just found out, is actually self-employed and so he invoices the company for his time.

[wijit]

I should also mention that my contract is quite vague as it is more implied than formal.

[transient]

Just seen you posted at the same time. As far as I can see it you have spent 8 hours outside your normal remit. I would also expect that although your contract does not mention going away there will be a clause stating you could be reassigned as the business sees fit or along those lines.

 

I would say take the afternoon off in lieu and let it lie. Just out of interest what did the salaried people get in return?

 

Good afternoon transient, my other colleagues are salaried, but I am not. Only one of them took the time off in lieu, I don't know what the other did but the third one, I have just found out, is actually self-employed and so he invoices the company for his time.

 

In that case I would take it as said. I am self employed and do not invoice for travel, i expect it, I currently travel 2 hours a day there and back. You are also not privy to what the 3rd party actually invoiced. I would suspect he put in the normal hours and claimed back the extra subsistence rates HMRC give him for a longer day/overnight stay this would come close to alleviating the extra

[Emmzzi]

Did you say "no thanks" to the trip?

 

If you like doing different things like site visits sometimes you need to put up with a bit if grief.

 

If you were my employee and made a fuss I'd

a) make sure you never got anything interesting to do

b) mark you down as a jobsworth

c) be less flexible about change of shifts for doctors, nativity plays, whatever.

 

You may get no flex from your employer at all, of course.

 

Whether that would bother you, I don't know, but it's where my head would be going. Employees complain they don't get involved in stuff and then when they do get a chance work it out to the last shilling. Makes you not want to bother.

 

I am NOT saying that is you, I am just giving you a different persepctive. And your domestics are not the employers problem either!

[transient]

Did you say "no thanks" to the trip?

 

If you like doing different things like site visits sometimes you need to put up with a bit if grief.

 

If you were my employee and made a fuss I'd

a) make sure you never got anything interesting to do

b) mark you down as a jobsworth

c) be less flexible about change of shifts for doctors, nativity plays, whatever.

 

You may get no flex from your employer at all, of course.

 

Whether that would bother you, I don't know, but it's where my head would be going. Employees complain they don't get involved in stuff and then when they do get a chance work it out to the last shilling. Makes you not want to bother.

 

I am NOT saying that is you, I am just giving you a different persepctive. And your domestics are not the employers problem either!

Would have to agree here too. In them asking you and you are not salaried it shows they value you and I wouldnt rock that boat

[mariefab]

Something else to consider is that *working time* is defined as 'periods when you are working at your employer's disposal and carrying out your employer's activities or duties'.

 

Travelling time would count as working time if you were visiting clients on your employer's behalf. e.g. sales rep.

However, travelling to an occasional meeting etc. would not count as working time.

[wijit]

Good afternoon all, thanks once again for the replies.

Whilst not forced to go, I wasn't given too much of a choice. So far as the flexibility goes, more than once I have gone above and beyond. My only issue really is the time away from home. I had been expecting to be back by 5 pm on Monday but the visit lasted far longer than had been planned. Generally, it is not a bad place to work, but there are definite differences between how salaried staff are treated and how non-salaried staff are.

I had said I would rather not go, but would if they really needed me to, which they said they did.

I can see perfectly how they view it, but that doesn't alter the fact that I was doing their work, and in order to do that I had to travel a distance during time I was not due to be at work.

[Emmzzi]

Well, best get an agreement up front next time - always easier!

[mariefab]

I understand how you feel but think it's probably best to let it lie this time.

 

Have a little speech ready for if you are asked to go away again in future.

Maybe something along the lines of: 'I'd rather not go because the last time I was away for about 29 hours, including part of my weekend off, and the only additional compensation was an afternoon off in lieu.'

[assisted blonde]

Not worth making a big fuss over this as it seems to have been a one off