Sacked on the spot without warning

[gazhodge1981]

Hi all,

 

Would someone be able to give me some advise please.

 

I went to work today and at 2pm i was called into the office and was told my employment was being terminated there and then

They gave me a letter saying it was for poor performance and poor time keeping which i was shocked at, as no one has ever said anything to me. I have been in my job for just over 11 months and never even had a come on your not doing your job or anything. I have not been late or missed time at work so i am a bit confused.

In the 11 and a bit months i have been working with this employer i have never been given a contract or job description and only limited training (not enough to do my job).

Is there anything i can do in terms of unfair dismissal, breach of contract???

Also they started interviewing people last week which I thought they were adding to the team but it now looks to me it was for my replacement is there anything i can do about constructive dismissal???

All they gave me in the office was a letter saying i was being terminated there and then, my pay slip for this month and next month, my p45 and a cheque which is one months money, commission for what i have sold, less tax.

 

Any help would be helpful

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

Can you give us, precisely, the time you've been employed, please?

[RachelMD]

Aye. That's important here

[gazhodge1981]

sorry, my employment started on 28th June 2010.

[RachelMD]

What was your job? Title? Responsibilities?

[gazhodge1981]

thats a good question, my business cards say sales executive but i also looked after there website and kept it up to date with current content, which i have done right though with no problems.

[Bigredbus]

So, you were 28 days away from a year employment, giving you statutory rights...

[gazhodge1981]

So, you were 28 days away from a year employment, giving you statutory rights...

 

it is 28 days away.

[RachelMD]

Yes, that's the contentious issue. Rather fishy that you got the Andy Black at this point.

Of course, the ER will try to argue that the EE wasn't entitled to a months notice, that's why I asked what your position was.

If you were relatively senior, and it would be implied that a months notice would be reasonable, then I think you'd have a good argument for being eligable for SER.

[gazhodge1981]

Yes, that's the contentious issue. Rather fishy that you got the Andy Black at this point.

Of course, the ER will try to argue that the EE wasn't entitled to a months notice, that's why I asked what your position was.

If you were relatively senior, and it would be implied that a months notice would be reasonable, then I think you'd have a good argument for being eligable for SER.

 

Sorry Rachel, but what is SER???

[RachelMD]

Statutory Employment Rights.

Gives you far greater scope to make an application to ET (Employment Tribunal)

[gazhodge1981]

At this stage what is my best course of action??? Should i go to a solicitor???

[honeybee13]

At this stage what is my best course of action??? Should i go to a solicitor???

 

Hello there. If you do, make sure it's an employment specialist. You should be able to find them in Yellow Pages, or the CAB should have contacts. Go and see 2 or 3 if you can, if they will offer a 30 minute free interview or you are willing to pay. You could also check out the ACAS website and speak to their helpline, although I would double-check any advice they give you.

 

I agree with the guys, it sounds a bit dodgy.

 

My best, HB

[Sidewinder]

Sadly a solicitor will probably just see the 11 months and say 'sorry' there isn't anything you can do, and to a certain extent he is right, as in theory at least an employer can dismiss for any reason with little fear of being taken to a Tribunal.

 

However. There are a few finer points which we will try to explore first beforehand, hence the barrage of questions.

 

Have you been given a written statement of reasons for dismissal? A right of appeal? Have you been paid any outstanding holiday pay?

[gazhodge1981]

Sadly a solicitor will probably just see the 11 months and say 'sorry' there isn't anything you can do, and to a certain extent he is right, as in theory at least an employer can dismiss for any reason with little fear of being taken to a Tribunal.

 

However. There are a few finer points which we will try to explore first beforehand, hence the barrage of questions.

 

Have you been given a written statement of reasons for dismissal? A right of appeal? Have you been paid any outstanding holiday pay?

 

They gave me a letter saying poor performance and poor time keeping (never mentioned), nothing at all to do with appeal and they included 1 weeks holiday pay ( no break down of it). fire away with the questions

[Ell-enn]

I thought the qualification time for SER was 51 weeks ? a good employment lawyer would want to know why they waited until 3 weeks before you would have earned employment rights to dismiss you for poor performance. This is especially dodgy given that they have not discussed poor performance with you previously or tried to assist you to make the grade.

 

Definitely see if you can get a free session with a specialist employment lawyer.

[Sidewinder]

Well the first thing to do is to write a formal letter of appeal, dismissing suggestions that your performance or timekeeping have been deficient in any way, and asking for written details of when you have previously been spoken to and by whom, on the matters for which you have been dismissed. You should also ask for a copy of your contract (I know - you have never had one, but why should we not start making life awkward for them?), and a copy of the company's disciplinary and grievance procedures (for the same reasons as before).

 

What you need to do now is to start being inconvenient. At the end of the day, the 11 months bit is always going to be a huge barrier here, and TBH it may be that you come across a brick wall with this, but it is necessary. With just less than the necessary 12 months service, a Tribunal could add your contractual notice period to the date of termination to take you over the 12 months, but without any form of written contract, it is going to be nigh on impossible to demonstrate that you could (or should) have been entitled to sufficient notice to take you over the 12 month mark. Unless they were daft enough to come up with some sort of contract which states that a months notice is required....

 

You also need to calculate your own holiday to see whether that is correct. Have you a record of what you have taken?

 

There are certainly some issues here - lack of a written statement of particulars, which by law you should have received soon after starting, lack of correct disciplinary procedures etc, but as yet, insufficient to bring an action for Unfair Dismissal.

 

Is there the remotest chance that you may have been dismissed for reasons of discrimination?

[Sidewinder]

I thought the qualification time for SER was 51 weeks ?

 

It is - if you are dismissed without notice (for reasons which would not automatically result in dismissal) after 51 weeks, then the statutory 1 weeks notice can be added to the 51 to make up the requisite 12 months in order to take Tribunal action for Unfair Dismissal.

[gazhodge1981]

Well the first thing to do is to write a formal letter of appeal, dismissing suggestions that your performance or timekeeping have been deficient in any way, and asking for written details of when you have previously been spoken to and by whom, on the matters for which you have been dismissed. You should also ask for a copy of your contract (I know - you have never had one, but why should we not start making life awkward for them?), and a copy of the company's disciplinary and grievance procedures (for the same reasons as before).

 

What you need to do now is to start being inconvenient. At the end of the day, the 11 months bit is always going to be a huge barrier here, and TBH it may be that you come across a brick wall with this, but it is necessary. With just less than the necessary 12 months service, a Tribunal could add your contractual notice period to the date of termination to take you over the 12 months, but without any form of written contract, it is going to be nigh on impossible to demonstrate that you could (or should) have been entitled to sufficient notice to take you over the 12 month mark. Unless they were daft enough to come up with some sort of contract which states that a months notice is required....

 

You also need to calculate your own holiday to see whether that is correct. Have you a record of what you have taken?

 

There are certainly some issues here - lack of a written statement of particulars, which by law you should have received soon after starting, lack of correct disciplinary procedures etc, but as yet, insufficient to bring an action for Unfair Dismissal.

 

Is there the remotest chance that you may have been dismissed for reasons of discrimination?

 

As for holidays I have taken 7 days this year so far and they have said they have paid me 7 days.

 

I can't think of any reason for discrimination or it has really happened. No one else has been called into the office or sacked and i was the last one to be taken on in the company.

 

Also is there a time limit in which they have to respond to my letter??? I will draft one up now.

Edited May 31, 2011 by gazhodge1981

[RachelMD]

Certainly you need to go see an employment law solicitor, maybe a few as opinions vary.

 

The qualification for SER issue is the big bowel of contention here.

 

Your employer had a statutory obligation to provide you, within 2 months of the commencement of your employment, with a written statement of the particulars of employment. That document should include the periods of notice that each party is required to give the other. Evidently that document wasn't provided.

Now, if you're in position of some seniority, where it might be implied that it was reasonabe for each party to give the other 4 weeks notice, you might be able to argue that your employer should have given you such notice in this circumstance. In which case you'd have, when taking into account the 4 weeks notice, over 1 years continuous service. Bingo, Statutory Employment Rights!

 

As Sidewinder said, the danger is that if you take this to a solicitor, they'll take a look at your length of service and say, 'sorry, no can do'.

I can't claim with any certainty that a claim would be accepted by ET on the 'implied notice' argument, but it's worth a punt. If you do go to see a solicitor, you need to impress this argument upon them.

[gazhodge1981]

Certainly you need to go see an employment law solicitor, maybe a few as opinions vary.

 

The qualification for SER issue is the big bowel of contention here.

 

Your employer had a statutory obligation to provide you, within 2 months of the commencement of your employment, with a written statement of the particulars of employment. That document should include the periods of notice that each party is required to give the other. Evidently that document wasn't provided.

Now, if you're in position of some seniority, where it might be implied that it was reasonabe for each party to give the other 4 weeks notice, you might be able to argue that your employer should have given you such notice in this circumstance. In which case you'd have, when taking into account the 4 weeks notice, over 1 years continuous service. Bingo, Statutory Employment Rights!

 

As Sidewinder said, the danger is that if you take this to a solicitor, they'll take a look at your length of service and say, 'sorry, no can do'.

I can't claim with any certainty that a claim would be accepted by ET on the 'implied notice' argument, but it's worth a punt. If you do go to see a solicitor, you need to impress this argument upon them.

 

Are they still able to just terminate your employment without any grievance procedure or offer of any training?

 

As far as notice I know they would want a months notice if i was going to leave.

 

As for a senior position, i was in the sales department and was the only one in the company to look after the web side of things which they did pay me to do.

[honeybee13]

Hello there. Do you have anything in writing that says you need to give a month's notice? Not necessarily a contract of employment - memos, emails etc for example.

 

My best, HB

[gazhodge1981]

Hi HB,

 

I have just checked the email's i had when they offered me the job, all it has on it is my salary, info about my company car and fuel but nothing about the notice period

 

Dear G,

Further to your recent interview and our subsequent conversation, I have pleasure in offering you the position of Sales Executive.

Your basic wage will be £*** per month. Commission will also be payable and you will receive a company vehicle and 22.5 litres of fuel per week.

As discussed, we would expect you to start employment on Monday 28th June, please advise if this is not possible.

Please bring both parts of your driving licence and your bank details.

Once again, congratulations and I look forward to seeing you on Monday.

Your Faithfully

This was the email they sent me to offer me the job.

 

It seems the only thing i can do is write to them and see if they send me a contract and stuff and maybe speak to a solicitor in the mean time

 

is there a set period they need to respond by???

[RachelMD]

Speak to a solicitor first.

Don't write asking for a contract, they might well send you one that includes all the terms that scupper your argument- 'only entitled to 1 weeks notice', etc.

You're in a stronger position with no written contract.

Plus, as they've not provided you with a written statement of particulars of employment, if you were to make an application to ET you could claim an additional 2/4 weeks pay for this failure.

[gazhodge1981]

Speak to a solicitor first.

Don't write asking for a contract, they might well send you one that includes all the terms that scupper your argument- 'only entitled to 1 weeks notice', etc.

You're in a stronger position with no written contract.

Plus, as they've not provided you with a written statement of particulars of employment, if you were to make an application to ET you could claim an additional 2/4 weeks pay for this failure.

 

TBH Rachel I don't think they could produce one even if they wanted to, i know some people there have been there 20 plus years and never seen one

 

I will arrange tomorrow to set up a meeting with a solicitor and see what they say.

 

Is there anything important i need to ask a solicitor or something they are likely to ask???