Oh the shame, and GRRRR!

[gyzmo]

Readers of a couple of my posts may have gathered that I have been having a spot of bother with my PC (keeps restarting). I have found out today, to my disgust and horror and shame, that the PC was purchased from PCWorld.:o Worse still, a 5 year warranty was purchased with it:o :o

Now I was not aware of this (it was bought as a prezzie for me a few years ago). Honest! No Really, I wasn't.....

Anyhows, called up their "help" desk and was told that there was nothing that could be done save to take the PC down to their shop and they would attempt to recover the data (for a large fee, of course, and not guaranteed to work), and then wipe the hard drive clean (not even checking to see if there is any other fault that may be casuing this problem - they simply assumed that it's a software problem.)

Got onto internet and posed the question on some help forum. A few hours later, got a response telling me exactly what to do. So far, I have managed to recover all my files, and I am now trying to see if I can get the system restarted without having to reinstall all the programs.

In other words, PCWorld can't, for a couple of hundred quid, offer the help and support found by a simple google search.

Needless to say, a stern letter is being sent to ask what kind of shoddy setup they have over there.

[spikeachu]

PC World have no responsibility for your files. Their yours, you put them there and if they were important to you, like all volatile information you should keep backups.

If you lack the knowledge to do this yourself, PC World will do it for you for £29.99.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting that they have done wrong.

[retailerspointofview]

also to note. many independant magazines put human and software related issues at top of problems with a pc.

without spending days ordering parts inspecting pc's ETC a 20 minute software format and restore easily proves it not human/software related and so narrows it instantly to hardware.

their 5 year service from my talking to staff in the store in my town was simply mechanical and accidental.

other parts of it were cheaper telephone lines at 4p-12p a minute as appose to £1.50

yearly MOT and service.

if you know how to backup
(unscrew pc and put into caddy as external, to backup onto second machine)
(if you get onto windows temporarily copy paste onto external usb drive/cd)
then great.

else pcworld can charge between £30 to £100. or a friend with some computer knowledge can do it from the price of a cup of coffee to a home cooked dinner.

i professionally charge £70. and personally charge a cup of coffee/beer

atleast you have found a method of backing it up. now do the format/restore and if still have issues then ask for a engineer (quicker option by calling the head office)

[gyzmo]

The point is this. PC World said that they would have to charge a fee for the service nothing else could be done.

However, a simple google search, and a question put on a help forum revealed several solutions. I managed to retrieve my data byu following solutions.

PC World "Help" desk did not even offer to send someone out to see if it was a hardware problem or whatever, they just wanted to get money out of me by offering a service I have been able to do free of charge (and with little difficulty) by using free software easily obtainable by the internet (and legally, I might add).

[spikeachu]

Originally Posted by gyzmo

The point is this. PC World said that they would have to charge a fee for the service nothing else could be done.

However, a simple google search, and a question put on a help forum revealed several solutions. I managed to retrieve my data byu following solutions.

PC World "Help" desk did not even offer to send someone out to see if it was a hardware problem or whatever, they just wanted to get money out of me by offering a service I have been able to do free of charge (and with little difficulty) by using free software easily obtainable by the internet (and legally, I might add).

Generally the help desk ar there to send technicians out to repair hardware faults, not identify them. If they sent a technician out to everyone that called there'd be a long waiting list.

They are there to screen the fault and ensure it is hardware before anyone is sent to you. Recovering the PC to factory settings is the easiest and quickest way of detecting hardware faults in many cases. If the recovery solves the problem, it was software related. If it doesn't it's hardware or an attached peripheral.

Without wanting to sound disrespectful, if you are not in a position to know how to back up your data, are you really in a position to tell PC World instantly that you have a hardware failure and should send someone out to you?

Really, you are telling us that PC World were wanting to charge for something you have now learnt how to do yourself. Consider a technicians time to be like anyone elses. I have a reasonably new car, however if i put in petrol instead of diesel and didn't know how to drain it myself, I would not expect a mechanic to drain it for me free of charge under warranty. Alternatively, I could learn how to do it myself and do it for free.

The same applies with a PC. If the software that you have installed has caused problems, why should PC World sort out the problem free of charge? It's a skill and takes time just like a mechanic draining a fuel tank.

[gyzmo]

Originally Posted by spikeachu

Generally the help desk ar there to send technicians out to repair hardware faults, not identify them. If they sent a technician out to everyone that called there'd be a long waiting list.

They are there to screen the fault and ensure it is hardware before anyone is sent to you. Recovering the PC to factory settings is the easiest and quickest way of detecting hardware faults in many cases. If the recovery solves the problem, it was software related. If it doesn't it's hardware or an attached peripheral.

Without wanting to sound disrespectful, if you are not in a position to know how to back up your data, are you really in a position to tell PC World instantly that you have a hardware failure and should send someone out to you?

Really, you are telling us that PC World were wanting to charge for something you have now learnt how to do yourself. Consider a technicians time to be like anyone elses. I have a reasonably new car, however if i put in petrol instead of diesel and didn't know how to drain it myself, I would not expect a mechanic to drain it for me free of charge under warranty. Alternatively, I could learn how to do it myself and do it for free.

The same applies with a PC. If the software that you have installed has caused problems, why should PC World sort out the problem free of charge? It's a skill and takes time just like a mechanic draining a fuel tank.

1. I can back up data. I have done so successfully in the past. It was only a small amount of data that I stood to lose, but it was important.
2. I am not disputing whether PC World are or are not responsible for loss of data. I am perfectly well aware that they accept no responsibility for it.
3. Who said that it was a software problem that "I have downloaded"? I am very careful about what I download and what I have running on my computer. My laptop has worked fine for donkeys years, and has similar programs running.
3. The technicians time is something that has been paid for, I believe, by the payment of the extended warranty. That also means that the staff are not repairing things "free of charge" - they have already received payment.

I re-iterate my point. PC World, without asking any questions, automatically decided that there was nothing that could be done. They did not ask questions, make suggestions or offer anything besides their view of the inevitability of my having to fork out money to them to recover the data I wanted.

I'm sorry, but the points you raise just do not relate to the issues at hand.

[spikeachu]

Ok, without being pedantic, the service agreement covers against hardware breakdown and accidental damage.

Where you got downloading from i don't know. I never mentioned it.

You have not paid for anything to do with the software. Be it originally installed on the system or installed afterwards by yourself. The hardware repair line will aid you in restoring back to factory settings and that is all they will have to do with software as this is a diagnostic procedure that can be used to determine or rule out hardware fault. Anything else, you're onto the £1.50 a minute software line or referred to store.

Again, there's no secrets with PCs and there's a world of answers on the internet. But for people who don't have the time or the inclination to do the research, they can buy PC World's knowledge / technicians time.

In all honesty, 92% of calls to PC Worlds helplines are as a result of user error or software errors, which leaves 8 out of 100 that have a genuine fault. On this basis, it is not viable to send out engineers to everyone that calls the line.

[retailerspointofview]

Originally Posted by gyzmo

1. I can back up data. I have done so successfully in the past. It was only a small amount of data that I stood to lose, but it was important.
2. I am not disputing whether PC World are or are not responsible for loss of data. I am perfectly well aware that they accept no responsibility for it.
3. Who said that it was a software problem that "I have downloaded"? I am very careful about what I download and what I have running on my computer. My laptop has worked fine for donkeys years, and has similar programs running.
3. The technicians time is something that has been paid for, I believe, by the payment of the extended warranty. That also means that the staff are not repairing things "free of charge" - they have already received payment.

I re-iterate my point. PC World, without asking any questions, automatically decided that there was nothing that could be done. They did not ask questions, make suggestions or offer anything besides their view of the inevitability of my having to fork out money to them to recover the data I wanted.

I'm sorry, but the points you raise just do not relate to the issues at hand.

read the terms of the extended agreement. it covers software telephone support not inhome software repair/backup ETC. if you decided that getting advise such as 'how do i press F8 to enter safemode' was not enough over the phone. then going into store is a premium. EXTRA.

just goes to show gyzmo how little you read and understand and still think your right.

like sky you pay £45+ for what they class as sky world. and yet you have to pay extra for HD or watching box office, premier sport channels.

they may have said there is nothing they can do over the phone to back up the hard drive. but if you wanted you could go into store and they can do this for £30-£100. people that know how to back up dont need to get a technician involved. if you dont know then you can use the services of a technician. if not then buy a technically minded friend a pint at the pub after inviting him around to help you.

as part of a normal process software is always the first thing to rule out. secondly is human error. initially if you said it only happens when you print an image they would suggest re installing the imaging sofware and then the printer.

if the restart was random then it is not directly linked to one piece of software but either a large error of many pieces of software or simply the operating system. if this is the case then to save you 5 hours of un installing EVERY little program over the phone. it is far easier to simply restore the entire machine taking 20 minutes. as after uninstalling all programs if you decided to take the lengthy option and if that not cure it a restore would then be required anyway. so save the hop skip and jump. go to the jump!

your computer must be random as it does not shut down after 2 or 3 minutes. (because you are on here with your unverified words of wisdom) (could have said lies.. but im feeling generous tonight)

yes you can waste hours on the phone, ages on the internet, buy a book etc to find out how to backup a hard drive. or get someone to do it for you

[gyzmo]

Oh FFS. Are you incapable of reading? Honestly, are you illiterate? I am not being funny or nasty, its just that everytime you reply to something, it bears no relation whatsoever to the issue at hand, and I am wondering if there is some incapacity you haveto understand the most simple of matters.

I'm not even going to bother arguing on this. I have made the point quite clearly. When you have read it properly (or got someone else to do it for you), then post back and try to be sensible in your answer and back it up with appropriate legislation and case law.

Only then will I bother responding.

[StormWarrior]

having a spot of bother with my PC (keeps restarting).

Gyzmo, can you expand a little? There are a couple of HARDWARE faults that could be causing this and a better description may help to give you some ideas of what to look for.

It it random? ( with regards to software running )
or, is it only when the Internet is running?
Does it happen, then happen again and again in quick succession?
Does it go real slow just before?

[sequenci]

@ retailers - your posts are rude and unhelpful.

[retailerspointofview]

from your comment you said:

3. The technicians time is something that has been paid for, I believe, by the payment of the extended warranty. That also means that the staff are not repairing things "free of charge" - they have already received payment.

my reply was to read the 5 year service agrement. no where does it say software backups or recoverys. to narrow down the thousands of possible faults a simple recovery is needed. which you can do yourself for free using either the windows disk supplied or the built in recovery.

they are not forcing you to pay them money. but their premium service is there if you need it.

all they ask you to do is to recovery the hard drive to factory settings. as this resolves.
*system registry issues
*settings changes
*software install failures
*viruses
*deletion of critical system files.
all in one go taking only 20 minutes.

if the issue still continues then there must be a hardware fault. which they can then atleast deal with as part of SOGA or the aftersales agreement.

they did infact ask you questions. such as what is your name, when did you purchase the machine, what is the problem. your reply would have been your name the 3 year date. to which they would ask if you have a service agreement with them to ensure a more prompt service then guidelined by SOGA. then lastly upon agreeing that you qualify for there faster service or whatever the extra benefits you get with the agreement they would straight away know a power fault is not pointless thigs such as:
you sitting at the wrong angle to computer
you wearing womans clothing.

it does however point the person on the telephone to 2 possibilities software or hardware.

normally if it boots for a few minutes then it leans more to the software possibility and the only fast way to solve if it is software related is to restore the pc. 20 minute restore saves hours going through registry, uninstalling programs etc which may not cure it. but a software restore does cure software issues.

so the next question.. i now count atleast 4 questions they HAVE asked you. "have you restored the pc"

your reply obviously no

there reply is then "can you do a software restore which 100% proves its not human error?" so we can arrange an engineer to repair or replace the pc.

this is a normal technical question-answer for many customers with similar issues.

i count 5 questions and offering advise that saves 5 hours on phones that proves 100% it not human/software based fault.

why aint you happy??

again you can do it yourself or look in the yellow pages, call up a friend and offer him a coffee beer or meal to do it OR use their premium service

[ForestChav]

Memtest86+?

Otherwise, it is probably equally likely to be S/W or H/W... so why not rule one of them out? Other than the RAM or HDD, H/W related freezing faults are actually quite rare, and difficult to diagnose precisely.

[gyzmo]

Originally Posted by retailerspointofview

from your comment you said:

3. The technicians time is something that has been paid for, I believe, by the payment of the extended warranty. That also means that the staff are not repairing things "free of charge" - they have already received payment.

my reply was to read the 5 year service agrement. no where does it say software backups or recoverys. to narrow down the thousands of possible faults a simple recovery is needed. which you can do yourself for free using either the windows disk supplied or the built in recovery.

they are not forcing you to pay them money. but their premium service is there if you need it.

all they ask you to do is to recovery the hard drive to factory settings. as this resolves.
*system registry issues
*settings changes
*software install failures
*viruses
*deletion of critical system files.
all in one go taking only 20 minutes.

if the issue still continues then there must be a hardware fault. which they can then atleast deal with as part of SOGA or the aftersales agreement.

they did infact ask you questions. such as what is your name, when did you purchase the machine, what is the problem. your reply would have been your name the 3 year date. to which they would ask if you have a service agreement with them to ensure a more prompt service then guidelined by SOGA. then lastly upon agreeing that you qualify for there faster service or whatever the extra benefits you get with the agreement they would straight away know a power fault is not pointless thigs such as:
you sitting at the wrong angle to computer
you wearing womans clothing.

it does however point the person on the telephone to 2 possibilities software or hardware.

normally if it boots for a few minutes then it leans more to the software possibility and the only fast way to solve if it is software related is to restore the pc. 20 minute restore saves hours going through registry, uninstalling programs etc which may not cure it. but a software restore does cure software issues.

so the next question.. i now count atleast 4 questions they HAVE asked you. "have you restored the pc"

your reply obviously no

there reply is then "can you do a software restore which 100% proves its not human error?" so we can arrange an engineer to repair or replace the pc.

this is a normal technical question-answer for many customers with similar issues.

i count 5 questions and offering advise that saves 5 hours on phones that proves 100% it not human/software based fault.

why aint you happy??

again you can do it yourself or look in the yellow pages, call up a friend and offer him a coffee beer or meal to do it OR use their premium service

JFC, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT BACKING UP MY DATA! I HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT I DONE THAT MYSELF.

Let me make this as simple as I possibly can for you.

I phohned the helpdesk after discovering a problem on my PC.
I told the halpdesk what the problem was - that the computer kept rebooting.
I was then told that nothing could be done - see my posts passim ad nauseam.
The questions they asked, like my name address etc is to confirm that I am the holder of the warranty and that the machine was bought from them. THEY DID NOT ASK ME ANY OTHER QUESTIONS WHEN I TOLD THEM WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS. DO YOU GET THAT?

Can you not see what I am getting at here? Let me put it this way.

You go to your doctor. You tell your doctor that you are not feeling well.
Your doctor tells you that nothing can be done except to have a labotomy (which I am beginning to suspect has already occurred for a certain someone).

I'm sorry to bring our wonderful medical profession down to the level of PC world staff, but the point serves the purpose. That is exactly what happened when I phoned PC world.

RPOV, I strongly suggest that you limit your posts to RELEVANT facts, and not to personal insults (for which I have already reported you for).

Storm Warrior, just to say that it rebooted after startup before I got to the login screen. That's all I know (I am in no way an expert on computer matters). A friend however tells me, as you have suggested, that hardware problems, as well as software, can cause this. A fact that RPOV seems to have overlooked as well as PC World.

The issue as to the functioning of my PC seems to have resolved itself.

The issue as to RPOV displaying any ounce of knowledge in regards to law is yet to be seen

[StormWarrior]

Your doctor tells you that nothing can be done except to have a labotomy (which I am beginning to suspect has already occurred for a certain someone).


Faulty or loose memory can often cause that sort of problem, depends exactly where in the boot sequence it 'loops'.

But there are many software faults that could cause it too, but the s/w ones do not tend to go away.

As it seems to have resolved itself, I'd be tempted to do some backups, and I don't mean your data. Things like e-mails, mail settings, favorites, and the like are often missed when backing up machines.
Passwords are another common 'forgotten' setting Been there done that, and I should know better. But in my defence, the machine had been running for 4 years without being switched off, how was I supposed to remember what we used as a password!!