Pcworld missleading saleperson. Customer services Fob Off

[demon_x_slash]

You've already posted this post, word for word, in another thread. Patdavies has given you a very straightforward correction/reply there. Please don't double-post.

[blacksheep1979]

by any chance retailpointofview have you been here before under the name yourbestfriend?

[demon_x_slash]

lol

[rosiecotton]

Originally Posted by blacksheep1979

by any chance retailpointofview have you been here before under the name yourbestfriend?

You beat me to it. I'd put money on it, if I had any!

lets reword it. manufacturers are the only EXTERNAL engineers the seller will recognise as being fully trained, so your friend down the road is no good no matter how qualified he is.

unless the seller's own repairmen, or external parties which THEY recognise. You will be going outside of the SOGA and could be affecting it if you wished to claim later.

it is not complete rubbish. To keep your rights you have to get it verified by the sellers representatives and the repairs have to be satisfactory to the seller too.

lets say you did not go to ford to get your car fixed and went to joe bloggs mechanics instead, be has a degree in engineering and 30 years expereince. if he then found out the engine was faulty and put a non ford engine in the car or a 1.8litre instead of the 1.6litre this can afect your rights. also by it not being diagnosed by the seller then the seller could see this as you trying to get a engine upgrade not a repair. again affecting your rights. sellers see the people who design it as being the only fully qualified people 100%. as they design it, have spare parts, etc, etc. there are many people 99.9999999% qualified to fix it but unless recognised by the seller, they might as well be 0% qualified when it comes to your rights.

i am not saying other garages are not qualified to fix ford cars. im saying that to keep your rights go to the right people.

[rosiecotton]

Originally Posted by retailpointofview

i am not saying other garages are not qualified to fix ford cars. im saying that to keep your rights go to the right people.

Yes. The retailer. And only the retailer.

[gyzmo]

It is an unfair term for a warranty to insist that only an "authorised" dealership can repair a car under warranty. So long as the work is necessary, done to the same standard and the costs reasonable, a consumer can go to whoever he wishes for repair. The seller has the legal responsibility. The consumer has choice. There is a difference.

[sheepdemon]

Originally Posted by blacksheep1979

erm complete rubbish - thats like saying the only place you can get your ford car fixed is at a ford garage...

To be honest it IS complete rubbish BUT PC World only offer the repair service as a convenience for customers. By law they COULD just send it to the manufacturer to be fixed, if they wanted.

[gyzmo]

They could do - it is an option, but it is not the only one. without re-iterating points already made, the main issue is that it is ultimately down to the seller to sort the problem out, and the method must be reasonable. The consumer has teh right to have it fixed elsewhere and reclaim teh cost from the seller. That is something that does not seem to be getting through to some people

[rosiecotton]

The consumer has to give the trader a reasonable opportunity to put the faults right first, however. The court will look to see if the consumer has done so.

[gyzmo]

Originally Posted by rosiecotton

The consumer has to give the trader a reasonable opportunity to put the faults right first, however. The court will look to see if the consumer has done so.

Quite right.

read your own threads people .. your contradicting yourself..

gyzmo - yes it is unfair that only an autherised dealership can deal with it. yes you can go to whoever you want. but going to that 15yo boy who just passed his IT GSCE exam to fix your product is not gonna play well if future problems occur and you try to reclaim your right later.

Rosie -the retailer is correct. but demanding at store level is going to get you no-where. store level staff do not have the expertise necessary to fix issues. contact head office of companies FIRST.

if you are at all interested in getting the products fixed and not affect your rights at all id suggest contacting the head office for a list of their autherised repair services. and who will they suggest. THE MANUFACTURER. as this is where your product ends up anyway.

getting the retailer to call and arrange with the manufacturer will take 48hours for the manufacturer to call you back to arrange the courier/repairer.

contacting them yourself saves this time. also manufacturers have to state that it does not affect your legal rights. so if they repair or replace the product with diferent parts or a whole different model. IT DOES NOT affect your legal rights.

so seller asking you to contact the manufacturer is a remdey. by asking the buyer to call direct helps with the reasonable time. by it being the manufacturer there are no costs. and by not having to leave your house as the manufacturer comes to you, it is least inconvenient.

again manufacturers do not afect your legal rights. but unknown repairs can.

[gyzmo]

The issue is really being missed here. Firstly, I said in my previous post that the work would have to be of a satisfactory standard. Going to a 15 yr old would clearly not fall within this case, so why raise it? Secondly, the Sale and Supply of Goods Regulations places the burden of sorting problems out on the seller. 48B of Soga requires the seller to remedy the situation at their cost. It does not to tell the customer to go elsewhere. Telling a consumer to contact the manufacturer is NOT a remedy. Let me make this clear. IF THE SELLER IS REQUIRED TO REMEDY A PROBLEM, REMEDY IT HE MUST.

That is exactly why the regulations were brought in, and the entire point of my posts - about sellers shirking their responsibilities. You are confusing what a consumer may do with what a seller must do. Stop it.

it is only illegal if the buyer requests to wait those 48hours for the retailer to call the manufacturer to get them to call you and THEN the retailer refuses to call them.

also i am just saying it may take 48 hours to call you back to arrange the pickup.. but in a busy company it can take upto a week. becareful here by you agreeing to wait 48hours to a week you are also agreeing to an extension of the reasonable time.

yes stores have something like a 28day policy where if it not fixed within this time you get a automatic refund/replacement. but this is only policy not law. they could ignore their policies if they chose to and just go by law and so if it takes a week to call you to arrange the pickup. you have agreed this. if it takes 28 days to repair it then that also classes as reasonable time(35 days total). so dont always rely on the stores 28day policy because if you agree to wait you could be agreeing to wait longer.

no where in law does it say manufacturers CANNOT repair it. NO WHERE does it say the original sales person has to repair it. all it says is that a remedy has to be found which is dealt with within reasonable time, least inconvenience and without cost to buyer.

calling the manufacturer is a remedy. and extra laws where the manufacturers warrenty and services do not affect your legal rights also helps the buyer to with all future issues.

yes you can ask the head office to contact the manufacturer on your behalf. but we all know what call centres are like. why use a middle man?? it does not affect your legal rights.

after the manufacturer period then the seller has to find another remedy costing them more money.

one thing i don't suggest is getting unknown joe bloggs down the road to deal with it. ask the seller for a list of their recognised repairers

a remedy.. a remedy.
did you see anywhere that is says the seller had to repair it themselves?? no. they just have to ensure they find a solution that does not cost the buyer any money, is fixed within reasonable time and least inconvenience to the buyer.
show me where it says "NO ONE ELSE CAN DEAL WITH IT"

Originally Posted by gyzmo

The consumer has the right to have it fixed elsewhere and reclaim the cost from the seller. That is something that does not seem to be getting through to some people

and then

Originally Posted by gyzmo

The issue is really being missed here. Firstly, I said in my previous post that the work would have to be of a satisfactory standard. Going to a 15 yr old would clearly not fall within this case, so why raise it? Secondly, the Sale and Supply of Goods Regulations places the burden of sorting problems out on the seller. 48B of Soga requires the seller to remedy the situation at their cost. It does not to tell the customer to go elsewhere. Telling a consumer to contact the manufacturer is NOT a remedy. Let me make this clear. IF THE SELLER IS REQUIRED TO REMEDY A PROBLEM, REMEDY IT HE MUST.

That is exactly why the regulations were brought in, and the entire point of my posts - about sellers shirking their responsibilities. You are confusing what a consumer may do with what a seller must do. Stop it.

so the buyer can go to whomever they want and get re-imbursed later.. or the seller is the only one that can deal with it..

?????

telling the buyer to go to the manufacturer is the same as you going elsewhere.

but the important thing is that manufacturers do not affect your rights.. elsewhere might. manufacturers dont ask for costs upfront, elsewhere might.

so, clarify your point to me??

[gyzmo]

Once again....

It is the obligation of the seller to remedy the situation.
It is the choice of the consumer, subject to reasonableness, to use someone other than the seller.
If the consumer goes to the seller, the seller cannot fob him off by telling the consumer to go elsewhere.

I do not see where the difficulty is in this. I do not see where there is any contradiction in what I have said. I do not know, frankly, why i am even bothering to entertaining this issue any further.