Claim against PC world

I am have currently got a case running against PC world Funny enought for a lap top that broken down, just after 12 months,

oneday retail stores will understand the Sales of goods Act.

[BankFodder]

I hope that it wasn't an Acer as well. I've just ordered one.

[gothicf0rm]

mugs :P why dont you buy ex leased ibm laptops. they last for years, cost peanuts and are amazing

have you the link to where we can

[gothicf0rm]

tap "refurbished laptops" into google and then see what your budget can fit you can get really good ex leased ones that work well.

[Robertxc]

An alternative is the Dell Outlet (find it on the Dell website). In my business we only use Dell for desktops, laptops and servers, and find them to be excellent for value and reliability.

[BankFodder]

Yes, but see Dave's post elsewhre about problems caused by Dell's payment system

[seylectric]

Originally Posted by stephen

I am have currently got a case running against PC world Funny enought for a lap top that broken down, just after 12 months,

oneday retail stores will understand the Sales of goods Act.

It's a shame more consumers don't understand it, it would wipe out the expensive extended guarantee schemes overnight.

For those that don't know, the Sale of Goods Act may cover you for up to six years for faulty goods if the goods can be reasonably be expected to last that long, e.g. a washing machine.

Trading Standards are usually pretty clued up about this.

[Whisperwolf]

Originally Posted by Robertxc

An alternative is the Dell Outlet (find it on the Dell website). In my business we only use Dell for desktops, laptops and servers, and find them to be excellent for value and reliability.

All I would say about this is Caveat Emptor. If a computer firm doesn't want high street outlets to deal with the public, there's often a reason for it.

Tiny Computers are a perfect example. They had nice shopfronts, with tiptop machines - but when you ordered something, it always had to be built someplace else and the result was that the machines delivered were often not the same quality as the machines in the showroom.

I'm suspicious of Dell for the same reason - if I buy a machine or a peripheral, I want to be able to have some recourse in the event of a problem. If a company won't deal with me directly I have to rely on telephone call centres and I'm not prepared to play that game.

While I'm not saying Dell are bad, you do have the classic situation - when it's good, it's very very good... but if you get a bad one...

[dunkinn]

For the record on Dell PC's. I used to work for CCTV company who regularly purchased Dell PC's to work as digital recording viewers. Unfortunately the decision to use them was based on the MD getting a free (albeit very nice) desktop for his home.

The reliability of the machines where generally pretty good, but then most computers are. With the exception of Time computers (I am convinced these guys only purchased known faulty stuff that would fail after a year or so - always the caps on the motherboard) I have yet to meet a computer brand that isn't pretty reliable.

But then as this forums is all about, its not that. It' customer service. Now Dells customer service is frankly the worse out of any computer manufacturer I'd had to deal with. I'll give my favourite short story on them below (it was a year ago now so pinch of salt with the quotes, but its the gist thats important). I'm an MCSE, had many years working in the industry. We had over 300 machines in the field and every single one had a 3 yr ON SITE warranty.

So the demo machine in the showroom goes. It clearly the motherboard at fault as the computer would not POST (for those who don't know the POST is complete when the computer makes the BEEP. If a computer doesn't POST, you know its really screwed up)

So I call Dell.... The phone is picked up straight away, although my a machine. I work my way through the various menus (10 minutes to get through them - on the business support number). Another 20 minutes holding... then the phones picked up.

D: "Hi Dell how may I help you?"
Me: "Hi I have a computer which has a fault motherboard. I'd like to return it to be repaired please."
D: "I'm afraid we have to go through some procedures first."
Me: "Oh ok..."
.... they ask me the serial number and a few other bits....
D: "Ok can you look at the back of your machine and tell me what lights are lit up on the ABCD panel (I forget what they actually call it)"
Me: Gives the ones lit up
D: "Ok that is a fault with your power lead."
Me: "Power lead?"
D: "Yes can you replace it for me with another one."
Me: "Umm, ok." - grab another one out of the cupboard and set it up.
Me: "Nope same problem."
D: "Ok well its definately the power cord, can you change it for another one?"

So by this point I'd been through 10 minutes of phone menus, 20 minutes of holding, and 15 minutes talking to "technical support". I actually did have a job to do and there was no way on earth it could have been the power cord. To this day it shocks me that they said it was....

Me: "Ok, I have been doing this job for years and there is no way that the power cord is at fault. If the power cord was at fault the computer would not turn on at all"
D: "Well Sir, it must be. The light combination indicates the power cord is at fault. Can you change it for another one?"
Me: "Ok, but this will not make any difference." - change for another power cord.
Me: "Nope still nothing. It really is the motherboard. I just want to return the computer for repair under the warranty which is still valid."
D: "I am afraid I cannot issue a returns number until we have attempted to solve the problem."
Me: "Clearly as the computer doesn't POST there is not going to be a solution over the phone. The motherboard is faulty. You keep telling me to change the power cord which is not going to solve this."
D: "We must go through the full procedure."
Me: "Ok, we've ordered over 300 computers from you in the last 6 months. Everyone has an on-site call out warranty. This computer does not work, so I would like an engineer to come to site to address the issue."
D: "I'm afraid I cannot do that."
Me: "Ok well I want a returns number so that I can send this fault computer back to you for repair under warranty. I do not mind, but I am not spending my time replacing power cables as I have other things I need to do."
D: "I'm afraid I cannot issue a returns number."
Me: "Ok, can I speak to a manager please."
D: "Cetainly Sir..." - bit of a wait. No more than a few minutes tho.

D: "Hello, xxxx speaking how can I help you?"
I explain the situation and at the end say something along the lines of:
Me: "... and as they all have a valid on-site warranty I would like this computer fixed. Changing the power cord is not going to solve the situation and after 45 minutes on the phone I have a job to do. Can you please issue me with a returns number so I can return the unit for you for repair."
D: "Yes Sir. I will get the customer service representative to do that for you now."
Me: "Thanks"

..... and we get somewhere!


I always hated ringing Dell. It was always the same story - a complete uphill battle to get anything out of them. But we did draw up this list of things to help us at our company.

1) We never purchased the on site warranty again. Considering the difficulty in getting a returns number we estimated that the chance of ever getting a Dell Engineer out was probably zero.
2) We never spoke to anyone who answered the phone on the technical support line. We immediately asked to talk to a manager - technical support people do not seem to be able to give a returns number - and certainly not without asking questions which sometimes border on the ridiculous.
3) Even if you know what the problem is, there is no point in explaining it. We found it was far more effective to say simply it didn't not work at all. It seems that a computer that does not work at all is more likely to be accepted for return. I am guessing because apart from "Is it plugged in?" there is not much they can ask.

Hope this helps someone!

And a great site... I am just about to start trying to recover my bank charges and you can be sure that if I do, a nice donation for books and to keep this great resource up will be coming you way!

Thanks guys.

(clearly wrong topic! Sorry - can someone with power move it? =) )

[nij4t2]

Originally Posted by Robertxc

An alternative is the Dell Outlet (find it on the Dell website). In my business we only use Dell for desktops, laptops and servers, and find them to be excellent for value and reliability.

I agree. I once got a multi-processor workstation for them. Looking for a little while over time and I noticed two machines that were very similar in specification... except one came 'without Operating System' (the other came with Windows). I ordered the one without OS - which was £900 cheaper, wich is a lot less than the cost of the Windows license! Bargain!

And, nicely enough, when I received the machine it came with Windows pre-installed and had a windows license sticker on it... so it was a 'real' license!

Double Bargain

I've had a number of Dells which have worked well for me, though I did have to use their on-site support a couple of times for a leased machine... but did not experience the major responses someone else has written about.

[dave]

Yes, Dell are a nightmare - relatively good value, but you get what you pay for.

We needed a replacement hot-patchable power supply for our server. We we told it was in the post - after some chasing, a poser CABLE turned up. We phoned. "sorry about that Sir, we'll send out out now."

2 days later - a power CABLE turned up. This went on for some months - we have a draw full of dell power cables now.

Eventually we had to buy a replacement from somewhere else and then bill Dell for it.

We've just changed to Sun gear - and I can tell you, whilst marginally more expensive the quality is much, much better and (from what I remember from where I used to work) much more robust than Dell gear.

Dell are ok for an average home user, but the motherboards are cheap, the on board graphics are cheap - a friend just bought a new one - I had alook inside, and there's not even an AGP slot to upgrade the graphics from the woefully inadequete on-board, which means a more expensive PCI one etc....

You get what you pay for.

[Movingon]

Well... my Dell Dimension 4600i is fantastic... like you say you get what you pay for. I have had no trouble with it, I have an AGP slot (filled with a GeForce FX5200), I have no onboard graphics, and if I've ever called Dell support they've been brilliant - WHEN you convince them to put the script book down.


I really don't "get" what you lot are on about... buy one of their better computers and you get a better computer. I wanted the Dimension 8300i with HT... but couldn't afford - Ahhhhhh

[dave]

We bought a Dell server 3 years ago - It's shagged now - HDD's have gone, the RAID array hasn't worked, the power supplies keep going etc..etc...

This was a dual xeon 3.2mhz jobbie with the best they could provide - it cost 14k - it should reasonably be expected to last more than 3 years.

Their support on it has been terrible - even though we have our own account manager.

So, off to Sun Microsystems then - installed the new SAN the day before last - nice and easy setup - engineer on site - seems fine so far - a bit more expensive than the Dell, but then, I expect it will last a lot longer too.

[mechs]

Personally I would sooner purchase from a shop like pc world at least if its faulty you can take it back to them and converse face to face and not have to pay carriage

[fivelaws]

PC World are OK if you know plenty about computers and have already done you homework and they're fine if you just need something *NOW* rather than waiting for delivery tomorrow.

My issue is that their staff know almost nothing about computers (if they were qualified and experienced they wouldn't be working in a McJob like PC World) and totally mis-sell to consumers. I think the number of ASA complaints against them shows they are not the most honest bunch of retailers either.

As for Dell (Off-topic I know), we also no longer buy their "service" agreements as they aren't worth the paper they're written on. We once had to go through the charade of "is it plugged in?" with a dead PSU. I knew it was dead because we'd already replaced it and the faulty unit was on my desk (my response - "yes, and flicking the on switch doesn't work....").


*pop* - sound of posting cherry popping.

[fallen404]

Hmmm...with places like PC World, the trick is to find the one or two guys who work there who do actually know what they're talking about. The ones who have hand-built linux servers in their bedrooms. Generally speaking, they're students and like the idea of a staff discount on parts. They're also the only members off staff who won't stare at you blankly when you rattle off a list of required specs for a part or machine.

I've not had a problem with PC world, but the only thing I've ever bought from them has been a 54g wireless PCI card. When I next decide to get a new PC, it'll probably be a case of looking over Misco & eBuyer with a list of the parts I want, rather than buying a pre-made one: I'm most likely to want a games and movies machine, which more places are doing now, but which tend to be a bit on the pricey side...