Rbs Ppi

[jobsagoodun]

The story so far:

1. I took out a five year loan in late 2004 with RBS. The loan was accompanied by PPI (RBS loanguard). Unfortunately, I can't lay hands on my copies of the paperwork or loanguard terms and conditions. My local RBS branch have confirmed that the PPI is monthly premium.

2. Although technically "employed", I am a director of my own limited company and I seem to fulfil the RBS criteria for being "self employed" as defined in their current loanguard literature. I am assuming these elements of the loanguard terms and conditions were in force at the time I took out the PPI (I don't have a copy of the t&c that were in force at the time I took out the loan). The RBS is well aware of my status as they hold the bank accounts for my business! My reading of the situation is that unless I bcome unemployed as a result of bankruptcy or the involuntary insolvency of my business, I cannot claim.


3. I wrote to RBS as below claiming the policy had been mis-sold and requested RBS refund all premiums along with interest.

I believe I have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of my premiums, plus interest paid.

I took out a loan for £15,000 at your Preston Branch on 07/09/2004 and also bought a payment protection policy which attracted an additional premium over the life of the loan.

I am self-employed and therefore will not be eligible for any payments from the PPI if I find myself unable to meet my debt repayments.

Your salesperson did not check my personal circumstances at the time of sale, which they are under obligation to do. If they had done, they would have realised that a PPI policy was useless to me.

Insurers are under an obligation to ensure that the policy they are selling is appropriate to that customer and clearly, as my employment situation means I am unable to claim on the policy, you have not fulfilled this requirement.

I am requesting a full refund of all my insurance payments, plus interest.

If I do not receive a favourable response from you I will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman.

4. After much chasing on my part and a number of holding letters on behalf of the RBS, I finally received a reply today. Not surprisingly I suppose, the RBS concluded that no refund of premiums was due. Their supporting arguments are as follows:

" As part of my investigation, I have checked our records. Part of the application process was to use a duty of case checklist, for all personal loan customers, to ensure you considered how your loan would be repaid in the event of accident, sickness, voluntary unemployent or death. You signed the checklist to confirm that all the benefits of the loanguard cover had been explained, that you were elegible for cover and that you wished to apply for loanguard cover.

I can confirm that you also signed the loanguard section of the application form.

We note that you consider that self-employed status may effect elegibility. We have reviewed the terms of the policy and can confirm that self-employed individuals are elegible for cover. We would direct your attention to section 2(1) of the policy, which states that the applicant must be in 'work' to qualify for cover. Section 1 of the policy goes on to define 'work' as 'being in paid employment or self employed...for at least 16 hours a week' "

5. What are my options for proceeding? The RBS seems to be trying to shift the burden on to me by claiming it was my mistake around buying something I couldn't use. They are still suggesting that the policy covers self employment which simply doesn't hold water as far as I can tell. I have come up with following options...

• Issue a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and request copies of all paperwork and the PPI policy document in force at the time. take stock after reading the paperwork.
• Write back to the RBS and invite them to explain how given my employment status, I could ever make a claim against the policy.
• Go straight to the Financial Ombudsman (Their letter suggests I write back to RBS if I remain unhappy)

All thoughts, advice and opinons very welcome! (Sorry for the essay)

[reidnet]

Hiya,
Im glad to see that you have obviously researched this matter before you complained to them.

If you do not have a copy of the actual loan agreement and the original terms and conditions of the PPI that was in force at the time you took out the loan and PPI, I personally would try to obtain these by submitting a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), if you do submit Subject Access Request make sure that you make it dead clear what Information you really want too, this will save any complications if they start to use delaying tactics.

The part on self employment I totally agree with you, How could you ever claim for unemployment ? The only way the insurance would pay out is as you correctly state if your business was to go Under, even then I would think they would make a claim difficult for you. But if they insist that you are fully covered for being self employed.. Try sacking yourself and then try claiming (Only kidding there of course). To be honest I would consider that the level of cover you really have is Accident and Sickness, perhaps life if that is included in their policy.
After all who does the PPI policy really benefit.. Not the consumer for sure, these companies are only protecting themselves in the end.

They will use every trick in the book to get out of any liabillity over the PPI, they all do and most of them will state You ticked the box for PPI so go away. Well I am at court stage with GE for mis sold PPI, and yes they stated you ticked the box as part of their defence, Sorry but their sales rep Ticked the Box not me..So they will have to produce documented evidence that shows I ticked the Box.

Good Luck and if you need any Help Just Shout.

Ian

[jobsagoodun]

Thanks Ian,

I will go ahead with the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and see where that takes me.

Do you know of any positive experiences people have had taking this type of issue to the Financial Ombudsman?

Jobsagoodun

[jobsagoodun]

I have sent the following to RBS.

• I understand that you currently hold personal and financial information within your internal systems with respect to the above loan account.
• Please can you send me the information which I am entitled to under the Section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998. This should include, but not be limited to, the following:
  • A true copy of the actual loan agreement along with copies of all other related documentation, original application forms, checklists, contracts etc.
  • The original terms and conditions that specify the benefits and exclusions of the PPI that was in force at the time I took out the loan and the PPI.
  • A breakdown of all premiums & interest payments collected for the PPI policy along with details of when these payments were applied to the account.
  • Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information, including copies of any contacts, emails, transcripts of phone conversations or computer records. To include records held as paper, digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.
• Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, please confirm the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.
• Additionally, where there has been any event in my account which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the above account . If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please can you confirm this in your response.
• Please provide full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial data, or which pertains to me.
• I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10.
• If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.
• I look forward to hearing from you to confirm receipt in the first instance.
• If you are unable to deal with this request, you should immediately forward it to the person within your organisation responsible for data protection.

[jobsagoodun]

Next installment:

RBS have now responded to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) saying that they they have been "unable to locate any details regarding your loan and PPI". This is curious given their original knockback letter which talked about sections of the form I had completed and signed, described checklists, quoted from the PPI policy etc.

They have now sent me two sets of documentation in response to the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and are suggesting that Bank accounts will follow shortly. I still have none of the details I requested about the loan and PPI. When can I say they are in breach and report them?

I will send them a CCAR requesting a true copy of the original agreement. Given their very recent response to the Subject Access Request, they will find it hard to satisfy this request...


Any other thoughts about what I should/could be doing very gratefully received.

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by jobsagoodun

Next installment:

RBS have now responded to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) saying that they they have been "unable to locate any details regarding your loan and PPI". This is curious given their original knockback letter which talked about sections of the form I had completed and signed, described checklists, quoted from the PPI policy etc.

They have now sent me two sets of documentation in response to the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and are suggesting that Bank accounts will follow shortly. I still have none of the details I requested about the loan and PPI. When can I say they are in breach and report them?

I will send them a CCAR requesting a true copy of the original agreement. Given their very recent response to the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), they will find it hard to satisfy this request...


Any other thoughts about what I should/could be doing very gratefully received.

Hello,

This I find extremely interesting regarding the sudden unavailabilty of the credit agreement It seems that everybody including myself they have not been able to locate the ca.

I am sure that RBS/NW do not want to provide, because there is something on it that might come back to sting them severly.

I found after a lot of digging and questioning through numerous letters to and fro that they actually charged me 8.9% every year for ten years, so the interest I paid on the ppi was 89%. On a premium of £4,600 I was charged £4,034. When I threatened court action after finding that one out they paid up promptly.

I do believe that something very dodgy has gone on and they will not give the ca because then you will know

After they have paid me the ppi which came to over £7,000, I have now written to them to tell them I will make further payments to them, so I am happily awaiting their response.

If they cannot produce the ca, there is no agreement between you

Personally, I used this to my advantage, re the refund of the ppi. You have never agreed to this. so they best give you it back with interest.

Send a legal request for the ca, and start counting the days

[marcelle]

hi jobs

i am also with rbs and they took quite a few months to send me the missing page 2 of my cca and that was after i chased this through Information Commissioners Office.

hellhasnofury

I was looking at interest on your successes but didn't quite understand how they reimbursed you with over £7,000. I understand 89% (spaning over 10 years) of your original loan of £4600 is £4034 but how did you account for the final 3,000? what rate of interest did you charge them as I think you recommended charging them 8% per day. Is that right as I thought it was 8% per year?

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by marcelle

hi jobs

i am also with rbs and they took quite a few months to send me the missing page 2 of my cca and that was after i chased this through Information Commissioners Office.

hellhasnofury

I was looking at interest on your successes but didn't quite understand how they reimbursed you with over £7,000. I understand 89% (spaning over 10 years) of your original loan of £4600 is £4034 but how did you account for the final 3,000? what rate of interest did you charge them as I think you recommended charging them 8% per day. Is that right as I thought it was 8% per year?

Hello Marcelle,

Sorry I probably did not make that post very clear,

The ppi was still running and I asked, well demanded that they cancel it. The part of the remaining ppi which was about £995 and the remaining interest about £534 was paid into the loan amount so it was reduced.

I wished for the remaining amount owed to be paid to me by cheque, this came to over £7,110.34 . They charged me £4,600 for the ppi and £4,034 in interest on top. So the total amount was over £8,000. I did not push for statutory or contractual interest, because I have other plans afoot

I hope this makes sense or it it still as clear as mud

[marcelle]

Thanks Hells! Oh i think I get it now... (I think!) So do they charge us the ppi and interest up front early on in the game even though we pay the same amount each month for the duration of the contract? Also, on your cca, did it state exactly how much money altogether including interests you would be paying thoughout the months and aside from you charging them interest on what they charged you in the first place, there weren't any surprises? So in actual fact your contract did state that you will be paying over £8,000?

Finally, what plans do you have afoot... go on... tell, tell!

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by marcelle

Thanks Hells! Oh i think I get it now... (I think!) So do they charge us the ppi and interest up front early on in the game even though we pay the same amount each month for the duration of the contract? Also, on your cca, did it state exactly how much money altogether including interests you would be paying thoughout the months and aside from you charging them interest on what they charged you in the first place, there weren't any surprises? So in actual fact your contract did state that you will be paying over £8,000?

Finally, what plans do you have afoot... go on... tell, tell!

Hello,

Sorry can't give away top secrets, you never know who's reading these threads

[jobsagoodun]

Request for true copy of credit agreement (under CCA 1974) sent recorded delivery today. Template N used from the 'General debt' section of this site. 12 days and counting...

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by jobsagoodun

Request for true copy of credit agreement (under CCA 1974) sent recorded delivery today. Template N used from the 'General debt' section of this site. 12 days and counting...

tick tock tick tock

[marcelle]

Originally Posted by hellhasnofury

Hello,

Sorry can't give away top secrets, you never know who's reading these threads

Thanks Hells!