A Tricky PPI Query

[poochball]

Hello All,

I had a Loan Account with HFC Bank which I took out in 01/12/2001 and missed payments due to redundancy (March 2002) and before I knew it, I had a County Court Judgement Against me.

The interesting part is this, I called up HFC Bank today as I was recalling what I borrowed against the amount HFC Claimed for and they said I had PPI on my account.

I was like, what? PPI? But I don't remember taking it out! HFC said I did!

So, great I thought, I was made redundant and after all this I may have been able to claim on the PPI and possibly avoided defaulting on the agreement.

I am at a bit of a loss as to what I should do really. Should I demand it back?

I have phoned the insurance company and they have suggested I make a claim.

My problem is that I now have a CCJ which may have been avoided had I of known about the PPI.

Any suggestions? Could I get the CCJ set aside should my PPI Claim be succesful?

[dx100uk]

what an intersting scenario!
TBH HFC are pretty good on the PPI front
i'e they don't try and stitch it on you when taking out the loan...well thats my exp anyhow. so i dont know if a claim would work, but if they had known you were made redundant, should they have not suggested involking the ppi then.urm...

now i suppose what is really the point here is the total + int you could get back if your reclaimed the PPI vs the benefits of making a claim [can it be back dated? how long does it cover for & what amount is this?] and maybe getting the CCJ revolked [if you can...don't know] before its 6yrs old and no longer showing on credit files.


poss have a chat with hfc and ask what they think or know? would they be prepared to remove the ccj [if they can] because of this 'mutual misunderstanding?

this is going to be a good thread!!

dx100uk

now,

[poochball]

It should make for interesting reading.

I have got a few ideas about what I will do. I think initially I am going to speak to the Insurance Company and request a copy of the terms and conditions for my policy at that time.

I also also going to Subject Access Request HFC and see what they produce.

Once I have all this information I think it is then time for asking for a copy of my Original Credit Agreement under the CCA unless they provided it with my Subject Access Request.

If they don't have a copy of my agreement then I imagine this i grounds to get my CCJ Set Aside because without the agreement the debt is not enforceable. However giving that a CCJ has been given this might not work in my favour.

I must have signed something to say I wanted PPI, but I do not remember signing anything at all and if I did, it must not have been that clear. I never take out PPI purely because it is a rip off. I would rather get it cheaper somewhere else.

I don't think that my claim would hold much wait because it is a "my word agains't theirs".

I am still pondering though and will post my first move so to speak.

[poochball]

Ok, I decided on a slightly different approach.

I need to buy a little time to allow me to get the remainder of what I owe together so if I do get the CCJ set aside, I can pay it off and not have a new entry on my credit file for another six years.

I have noticed some inconsistencies with the original CCJ claim. (Thank god I electronically scan everything and keep an archive).

There is a £600 difference between the balance HFC asked to be collected and the amount Optima claimed in Court.

I have checked and triple checked and this is including Court Fees, Costs and Interest.

I have today written to Optima to query this and find out where the £600 appeared from.

I also noticed £140 in charges added to the account so will be claiming these back.

The PPI, I am going to ask for this back on two reasons:

1. I don't remember asking/signing for it. (If I did I could have made a claim)
2. Because my debt was sold, despite the fact that I had paid upfront in my loand for the PPI, they cancelled it in 2003 and gave no refund whatsoever.

I will do my best to get this money back because they have done me over big style.

Will keep updating this thread

[angel49]

hi poochball
I received my info today under a Subject Access Request from HFC,I had 4 accounts with them from 2000-2003. Nothing of what they sent me contains any info re the PPI I'd taken out with each loan.I'm now considering my next move and hope someone can advise, I've posted in the HFC forum re not being able to even understand the documents they've sent. I could'nt claim from PPI because of a pre existing condition and cancelled it but now I'm looking to claim back the premiums.

[poochball]

Hi Angel 49,

I think this thread here will help you in your quest.

Let me know how you get on and if you need any further assistance.

PS Which address did you send your Subject Access Request to for HFC?

Thanks

[angel49]

hi, thanks for that. I sent to:

HFC Bank
Subject Access Request Team
120 Edmund Street
Birmingham
B1 2XJ

[poochball]

Thank you for that address!

When I phoned HFC the other day and asked for an address to make a Subject Access Request to the lady on the other end of the phone went silent and then said we don't have one of them!

Just out of curiosity, did they take the £10 fee off you or did they return it?

Thanks

[angel49]

I originally sent £10 postal order back in February with my Data access letter. 2 weeks later they sent me a form requesting I.D (copy passport etc) and asked what accounts I needed access to, and said it could all be provided for a fee of £10 (already sent!)They had all the details in my first request, nonetheless I supplied it all again including a further £10 which,guess what? got returned today with my info! But as I said earlier, the data provided is all jargon coded and quite incomprehensible to me and contains nothing relating to any PPI.
A good contact name in the Data Access Request Team is Katie Nash with whom I've been speaking to: Direct telephone number 0121-214-4000 and 0121-214-5811

[poochball]

Thanks very much.

I will send off my request on Monday and hopefully get this account in order before my Holiday in June lol wishful thinking

[angel49]

All the best with your claim I'm sure it will be well sorted for your holiday, I'll watch for your progress.

[poochball]

Well, I spoke to the Solicitors who entered the CCJ against my name.

I am trying a different approach with regards to this claim and have sent the following letter to HFC.

I like to call it my fishing letter and this tactic worked very well with Intelligent Finance and meant I didn't ever have to threaten court action.

I expect one of two things:

1. My letter will be forwarded to the Solicitors who got my CCJ.

2. They will write back and tell me go away.

Generally at this point I then start my usual cycles and will show you my slightly different approach to matters as this matter goes on

Here is what I sent:


MY ADDRESS

4th April 2007


THEIR ADDRESS

Account Number: 12345678

Dear Sir or Madam,

I write with regards to the above account number.


I recently received a breakdown of my loan account and was shocked to discover the following: -


6 x £15 Admin Fee and 1 x £50 Default Fee. Total £140.

I respectfully request a refund of these penalties as they are disproportionate and are not a true representation of the actual loss incurred by HFC Bank. Furthermore I don't recall a clause in my original credit agreement whereby a £50 fee would be added to my account should it default.

If HFC say that these charges are not disproportionate, then will HFC please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs which HFC have incurred as a result of my breaches, and in order to reassure me that these penalties really do reflect HFC Bank's costs?

I have also recently discovered that on this loan account Payment Protection Insurance has been applied. I found this out when making an inquiry to the Stockport Branch of HFC. I don't ever recall requesting this and don't recall it being stipulated when I took out the loan account.

I would like the amount of the policy, plus interest incurred to be refunded. I never take out PPI because the insurers make it particularly difficult to make a claim and because external providers offer the same level of cover a lot cheaper. I have been misold this policy.

Please also confirm the cost of the policy including interest as I will need to speak to Optima Legal Services regarding my position with this account.

Had I of known this policy was on my account, I could have made a claim and possibly avoided defaulting. More to my shock, Hamilton insurance advised me the policy was canceled in January 2003. I had paid upfront for this policy as part of the loan so why was it canceled?


I look Forward to hearing from you soon.


Yours Faithfully
Pooch

[reidnet]

Nice letter Pooch,
I wonder how they will try and wriggle out of answering that one.

Ian

[poochball]

I am sure they will always find something.

I tend to think of this as a bit like tennis, with the letters being the ball.

I keep batting their ball back and they bat it back to me until one of us either wins or makes a fault.

I am pretty good at tennis....

[poochball]

I got a reply this morning,

I relation to the Charges I queried, they basically said that they don't agree with OFT's findings and no refund will be given. (We will see about that).

They are currently looking into my query about PPI and will respond shortly.

Just an update. I am currently drafting my reply in relation to their charges reply and will post another update.

[angel49]

Keep going Pooch, watching your thread. I've sent my prelim request for refund of PPI on Thursday.

[poochball]

Thanks Angel.

I have finished my letter to send back now, it is below:


MY ADDRESS


10th April 2007


THEIR ADDRESS

Account Number: 12345678
Your Reference: COMPLAINT 1000000000000001

Dear HFC Bank,


Thank you for your letter dated 5th April 2007, the contents of which have been duly noted. Please escalate my complaint in accordance with the “Guide to Internal Complaints Procedure” HFC Bank very kindly sent to me.

I understand that the charges for Late Payment, being Overlimit and being in Default are clearly set out in the agreements which a customer would sign. I now understand this because of the letter HFC Bank sent to me dated 5th April 2007. With all due respect, I don't believe that because a customer has simply signed an agreement that this would make HFC Bank's charges “fair and reasonable”.

One thing that interests me more than most is the leaflet which HFC Bank kindly provided. I note that HFC Bank subscribe to the Banking code and one of the standards of practice is that “all cases of financial difficulty will be dealt with quickly, sympathetically and positively”. This raises a couple of questions which I would like HFC Bank to provide an answer to: -

1. How is adding fees onto an account each month a positive and sympathetic approach?

2. Why when HFC contacted me about none payment were they not sympathetic and understanding?

3. If HFC Bank's charges are fair and reasonable, then as I requested in my previous letter, would HFC Bank please give a breakdown of how they arrived at these charges and send this information to me?

4. Why was I not made of aware of the Payment Protection insurance?


The fact you haven't already sent me this breakdown as requested in my previous letter leads me to believe that the charges HFC Bank have levied from me are not fair nor do they represent the true cost to HFC Bank.


Please refund these charges as requested in my letter dated 31st March 2007.


I look forward to hearing from you soon.


Yours sincerely








Pooch

[angel49]

Nice one, I think they just have to make things difficult to see how far you're willing to go before they have to succumb.