Hhmmmm.....Very Interesting

[skbuncks]

Hi All

Have been meaning to look into this little forum for quite some time but never managed to get round to it. I have had various PPI agreements over the years and must have paid out a fortune in premiums.

To start heres a summary of my PPI history to date (more to clarify in my head what info I need to dig up than anyhting else)

Lloyds TSB Graduate loan one £3500 + PPI. Start date around Sept 1999. Was a contractor at the time of taking out this loan so didnt actually qualify for cover as I found out much to my dismay around 9 months later. Bank staff were aware of my employment status.

Lloyds TSB Graduate loan two + PPI - a refinance of first loan. Not given option to remove PPI. Only had this loan before refinancing into graduate loan 3.

Lloyds TSB Graduate loan three £6500 + PPI (used to pay off previous loan). Start date unknown. Was informed I had to have PPI due to poor credit rating. Tried to cancel the PPI a coulpe of years into the loan but was refused, no idea of the date.

Lloyds TSB Loan £8000 + PPI.Start date unknown. Was informed I had to have PPI due to poor credit rating. Tried to cancel the PPI but was refused, no idea of the date.

Lloyds TSB loan £9000 no PPI finally got wise (used to pay off previous loans). Start date May 2005. Was finally getting sick of the PPI so paid off old loan.

Egg Visa £4100 limit + PPI - no idea when I got this 2001?? paid off now with egg loan
Egg MasterCard £4100 limit + PPI - no idea when I got this 2001?? paid off now with egg loan. Both cards automatically came with PPI. I did manage to cancel the policies but only after paying out hyundreds of pounds first.
Egg Loan £7000 not sure if had PPI or not (Used to pay off cards)

To summarise I need dates and account numbers for each loan. Amounts for the PPI cover. S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request for each to request statements and copies of loan agreements

Question - is there a template S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) available for PPI

skb

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[skbuncks]

Thanks to online banking I now have the loan numbers for lloyds loan 3, 4 and 5. Just the graduate loans one and two outstanding from lloyds. Also have the credit card numbers from Egg and the loan account number from egg.

Have a sneaky feeling I had PPI on my NatWest Visa and MasterCard, these were paid off around 7 years ago but know for a fact PPI would never have been explained to me. Still bit of a long shot I think going after them, just finding out the account numbers could take a massive amount of effort

skb

[lookinforinfo]

If you did an Subject Access Request to the bank, they should send back all the accounts/ statements etc. you have ever had with them.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[skbuncks]

Cheers Lookin, my Subject Access Request requests are unfortunately gunna have to wait till pay day as am quite quite skint. Gives me a bit more time to read up on the subject though I suppose. On the bright side i've found the account number 1 of my NatWest cards that I defaulted on - its on a letter from a DCA. Am also gunna obtain my credit report as this may have details of other cards (store cards, visa's etc) i've had in the far distant past

Early Repayment Charges (ERC)
On at least three of my loan that ive paid off early i was hit with a ERC.
For lloyds these amounted to 3 months interest of the closing balance. I now believe these to be a penalty charges, and thus unenforceable as per bank charges, and I want them back. And will fight tooth and claw to get them.

Handy Hint for Avoiding ERC's
For the last lloyds loan I paid off I was more aware of these ERC's so what i did was to pay off 95 % of my balance one month and then the following month request a settlement figure, as the balance of the loan was now really small the ERC of 3 months interest of the closing balance was also very small so ended up saving myself a fair wad of cash.

skb

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[skbuncks]

Am now ready to send off my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request. Have pulled a few things together and am gunna send them this, its a bit OTT but may as well get as much info they have on me as possible.

Dear Penny Berryman,

Re: Subject Access Request, Data Protection Act 1984 / 1998

Former Addresses:

Current Address:

Loan Account Numbers inclusive but not limited to:

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regards to personal loans.

I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL personal loans I have held with your organization:

• Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of same.
• A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL my loan accounts with your organisation.

• Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

• Full copies or transcripts of any computer logs or database records kept in relation to myself or in relation to my financial or personal information.

• Full copies of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to myself.

• Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

• Full hard copy print outs of any of my personal or financial information held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

I enclose a cheque in the sum of £10 to cover your fee. If you are unable to deal with this request, you should immediately forward it to the person within your organisation responsible for Data Protection. If you do not provide the information requested within the given time limits (40 days) under current Law, a complaint will be registered with the Information Commissioners Office and the Office of Fair Trading.

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance.

Lets see what they send me

skb

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[redsue]

Hi skbunks - I'm reading your thread with interest

Both cards automatically came with PPI. I did manage to cancel the policies but only after paying out hyundreds of pounds first.

This has happened to me also with an Egg Card, I know there is no way I would have asked for the PPI cover and would have refused it if I'd known as I know what a money spinner they are for the card companies and I was self employed at the time. I now realise that it wasn't me going mad!
I'm keen to claim this back now as I don't have anything on my card but I do have a loan with them

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skbuncks]

Hi Sue,
Ive only submitted my Subject Access Request for my loans with lloyds so far (am still waitng but have no response whatsoever) but am going to get the ball rolling with egg in the new year, I too have a nice £15K loan with egg, which fortunately doesnt have PPI on it.
My egg card PPI ended up costing a fortune cos I had two of them (visa and mastercard) each up to there limits of £4100, I cant remember exactly but have a feeling the PPI was costing me around £40 to £50 a month on EACH card. Think it might have been a pound for every £100 on the card. Still the Subject Access Request will sort out exactly how much it all came too.
To be honest I dont think it will be easy getting our cash back but im going to give it a damn good go. There is also of course the niggling worry that egg will retaliate and demand immediate repayment of loans but I say let em try it and i'll see them in court.
Anyway keep us informed on your progress

skb

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[dellydaisy]

Hi watching your thread with interest... Theres always hope that they intend to defend court action and decide not to as its not good for them ect...

Anyway thats my fear of taking my case further that A and L ask for my loan back

Does anyone know if they can do???

Good luck with claims!

Delly x

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skbuncks]

Theres always hope that they intend to defend court action and decide not to as its not good for them ect...

Anyway thats my fear of taking my case further that A and L ask for my loan back

Does anyone know if they can do???

To be honset I dont know whether or not they can do it however I think they would find it very hard to defend such retaliatory actions in a court of law.

skb

[redsue]

Well guys, I'm gonna give it a go anyway and send them the letter just asking about the original agreement - can't do any harm... can it? (famous last words) he he

[lookinforinfo]

Dellydaisy, although banks can call in an overdraft virtually without notice,
they cannot do that with a loan because a contract exists between you.
They can of course sell the loan on if you default.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[skbuncks]

Update:

Well I asked for it and lloyds have certainly gave it to me. In response to my rather detailed S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) (post 5) they have sent me a nice liitle bundle of information. Comes to a wad of A4 printouts 3 inches thick. Is gunna take me ages to plow through it all. On a quick glance everything asked for seems to be there, everything from loan agreements to credit scoring info but not got time to go through it until after chrimbo. There are even copies of my prelim and LBA for claiming back unlawful charges

skb

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[skbuncks]

I Have now gone through the info supplied which is summarised below. There is unfortunately no info on my first loan which was opened in 1999 and closed in 2001. As the close date is within the 6 year limit for a Subject Access Request then i'll be raising a complaint if they dont produce it.

Term 60 months Graduate loan 1.

Loan amount £3500 - monthly repayment £70.76
Insurance amount £709.07 - monthly repayment £14.34
Total loan £4209.7
Total monthly payment - £85.10
APR - 7.8 %
Term 60 months
Start 16/11/99. Payment date 8th of month
Missed payments on loan due to unemployment 10/7/00 and 9/8/00
Payments made (excluding final payment) - 18ish
Final payment £3090 on 1/10/01??
Insurance rebate – Believe I did get one
Insurance to claim back – 18 x £14.34 = £272.46 + rebate of ???

Graduate loan 2 - £2910 in cash and £3090 to repay graduate loan 1.

Loan amount £6000 - monthly repayment £120.4
Insurance amount £1215.53 - monthly repayment £24.39
Total loan £7215.53
Total monthly payment £144.79
APR - 7.8 %
Term 60 months
Start date - 1/10/01. Payment date 8th of month.
Payments made (excluding final payment) - 6
Final payment of £6619.23 on 10/4/02
Insurance rebate - Believe I did get one. I calculate it should have been £1115
Insurance to claim back – 6 x £24.39 = £146.34 + rebate of £1115 if not already received

Graduate loan 3 - To repay existing debts of £8461.70 (loan 2 £6619.23 and OD £1842.47) + cash of £38.30

Loan amount £8500 - monthly repayment £170.57.
Insurance amount £1722.03 - monthly repayment £34.56
Total loan £10222.03
Total monthly payment £205.13
APR - 7.8 %

Start date - 10/04/02. Payment date 8th of month.
Payments made (excluding final payment) - 39
Final payment - £4061.91 on £29/6/05
Early settlement fee - £52.17
Insurance rebate - No evidence for such from bank statements. I calculate that rebate should have been around £711.
Insurance to claim back – 39 x £34.56 = £1347.84 + rebate of £711 if not already received

Select loan

Loan amount £6500 - monthly repayment £150.78
Insurance amount £1527.3 - monthly repayment £35.55
Total loan £8027.30
Total monthly payment £186.83
APR - 14.9 %
Term 60 months
Start date - 9/01/04. Payment date 8th of month.
Payments made (excluding final payment and additional payments) - 15
Additional payments payments - £4500 28/5/04; £780 10/1/05;
Final payment - £636.6 11/4/05
Rebate – Received £1103.31 (I calculate it at £1301.63).
Early settlement fee - £14.33
Insurance to claim back – 15 x £35.55 = £497.70

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[skbuncks]

Brief summary

Graduate loan 1 – Claiming £274.46. Require bank statements to determine whether rebate of £527 was received.

Graduate loan 2 – Claiming £146.34. Require bank statements to determine whether rebate of £1115 was received

Graduate loan 3 – Claiming £1347.84 + £711 (rebate as no evidence this was received from bank statements). Early settlement fee of £52.17

Select Loan – Claiming £497.70 plus difference between what rebate was and what it should have been - £198. Early settlement fee £14.33

Total £4883.84 which may reduce to £2332 if evidence of rebates is found.

[skbuncks]

Heres a copy of the front sheet of one of my contracts. They're all pretty much the same

[skbuncks]

And links to the whole contract

[skbuncks]

The spreadsheets i used for my calculations can be found here

PPI for posting web.xls

skb

[skbuncks]

Questions - The burden of proof

My first graduate loan PPI was obviously missold as it was not fit for purpose - ie I was on a temporary working contract and when I lost my job and tried to claim I was told I they wouldnt pay out because temporary contracts were not covered by the insurance. On taking out the loan the bank was aware that I was on a temporary contract.
For subsequent loans I was told no PPI then no loan - how do I prove this as its my word against theirs??????

Question - Contracts

Does the loan contract have to state the total amount payable under the agreement i.e the loan + PPI + interest???

skb

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[bally35]

if you can prove taht your contracts were tempoarary at this point I imagine that is all the proof that you will need.
Cite your previous experience of trying to claim whilst on a temp contract (why would you want to do that again?)

[reidnet]

There was a rule brought in , I think it was from Feb 2005 that any Agreement has to Include a total charge for credit. As far as I can remember this was introduced by the FSA..I will have a look later when I have more time. I have it on file somewhere..lol

And it has to be laid out ..along these lines

Loan amount Interest Amount Total

PPI Cost Interest Amount Total

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.