keith22 Lloydstsb PPI

[Keith22]

Hi Di

Glad you are still fighting. I'm sure something will happen soon for you. I always avoided email to the FSO and made contact by telephone. I found them to be helpful whenever I rang. Good luck with your claim

Reading through all the posts regarding PPI the sheer variety of complaints and circumstances is amazing and finding common ground between them is difficult. One thing I would always advise is to try and write down as much of the circumstances as possible. Dates. names, times etc all help to build up the background. It in the end it often comes down to the clients word against the bank. I know how difficult it is to remember events that happened years ago but I have seem some claims which are so vague that they will be difficult to substantiate in the CC or with the Ombudsman.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[di0430]

HI KEITH

MANY THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY.

YES I'M SURE WE WILL HEAR SOMETHING VERY SHORTLY FROM THE OMBUDSMAN REGARDING THE COMPLAINT.

WHEN WE DID COMPLAIN TO THE LOAN/INS COMPANY THAT DID NOT RESOLVE ANYTHING FOR US REGARDING OUR POLICY BEING MIS SOLD WE SENT ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING IN EVIDENCE, EVEN COPIES OF LETTERS WE SENT TO THE FOS.

ME AND MY HUBBY NOTICED THAT WHEN WE RECEIVED THE RECORDINGS OF THE TELEPHONE CALLS, MAINLY THEY WERE ALL FROM THEM, AND WERE NOT IN ANY DATED ORDER, BUT THERE WAS A GOOD ONE ON THERE THAT SHOULD HOPEFULLY HELP US OUT, AS THIS WAS PROVED TO BE PUSHED ON US WHEN WE INFORMED THEM WE COULD HAVE A CHEAPER STAND ALONE POLICY ELSEWHERE-AS THIS ONE WAS FORCED ON US, AND WAS NOT ACTUALLY GIVEN ANY CHOICE IN THE MATTER.

I ACTUALLY MADE A CALL TO THE COMPANY AFTER THIS CALL THAT WAS NOT PICKED UP ON CD DISK RECORDING, I HAD QUESTIONED THE COMPANY ABOUT THE POLICY, ABOUT WHY DID WE REALLY HAVE TO ACCEPT THEIR POLICY COVER AND NOT GO ELSEWHERE AS IT WOULD BE CHEAPER ??
TO BE HONEST THEY WERE READY WITH ANSWERS. AND THERE WAS NO GETTING OUT THEN !! AT THAT TIME WE ASSUMED THEN-'AH WELL WE HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO TAKE IT' !!

I AM ANNOYED WHY THAT RECORDING WAS NOT ON THE DISK, BUT HOPEFULLY IF THE OMBUDSMAN DEPT LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY ON THAT ONE AS STATED ABOVE AS IT IS PRETTY QUIET ON THAT ACTUAL ONE, THEY WILL KNOW WHAT WE MEAN !!!
WE NOTICED ON THE RECORDINGS TOO, LIKE AS IF IT WAS JUMPING AND MISSING !!

WE ARE TALKING OF APPROX £8-£10K WITHOUT INTEREST OF INSURANCE !!

I WILL KEEP MY FINGERS CROSSED FOR YOU, AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE SAME POSITION, AS I BELIEVE WE CAN GET THROUGH THIS, BUT I THINK I JUST NEED TO BE PATIENT !!

WILL KEEP YOU INFORMED !
AGAIN MANY THANKS. DI XX

[The Capitulator]

Hi Keith & all
Firstly well done Keith partial victory I am sure you will get there in the end.
I thought I would give a little background to my future claim.

A £2,500 buisness loan (not LTD) has risen to a £14,000 loan over 3 years, in 3 stages. Each stage had a new PPI forced on it, I have not completed the spreadsheets as yet as I am still working on the unlawful charges platform of approx £5k + interest. my plan is to get that to court stage and then press the button for the PPI as at that point I will be earning interest on the unlawful charges and if they wish to take six months working out if I should get a refund or not -I dont really care. I should mention that they have closed my account even after I gave them a log number of my complaint with the FO, and also agreed to freeze overdraft interest applied to the account, i.e. if they take their time I won't owe anything anyhow. I know I was missold as I also was self employed with a history of stress disorders, I even refused to sign one PPI and they asked me to take it home and think about it. I did and then posted it back saying no (kept a copy) then 2 weeks later I needed the loan even more for buisness expansion so went back with my tail between my legs and signed up. 30 or so days later I phoned the underwriters and asked to cancel and they said no "I would have to contact my bank they said"
Anyhow I have gone on enough

What do you guys think- has any one a plan I could follow?
Looking forward to TMcD Friday
regards

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Keith22]

Hi Capitulator,

Were these loans with Lloystsb? Do you have copies of the application
forms for PPI, Terms and Conditions or policy documents you can refer back to?

[Keith22]

Hi Everyone - just put the phone down after talking to the adjudicator dealing with our case at the FSO. She was really surprised that the Bank had refunded our premiums without adding the the interest. Like me she has heard nothing from the Bank so she ringing them later to ask for an explanation - and so it goes on. I have to say that I have found her to be most helpful.

And.... how about this. Whilst checking through my statements to make sure that I had the corrrect sum refunded for my premiums I actually discovered a third lot of PPI that I had forgotten about. This was for commercial overdraft insurance for which I paid 14 monthly payments of £47. This actually took place between the dates of the PPI I have been claiming - and guess what. It was mis-sold to me for exactly the same medical reasons as the PPI and in the same manner by the same Bank Manager (I used to think he was a good bloke - don't ask what I think now!). The ombudsmans office have taken this on board for me as well.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[reidnet]

Sounds like you are on your way at full speed now Keith, Well Done and keep up the good work..

Ian

[The Capitulator]

Hi Keith
Thanks for your comments, yes it was LTSB and no I don't have any paper copies of T&C. Can these be requested as part of data request? if not -was thinking of asking if I could read hard copies in bank premises what do you think? can they say no? (like to spend a few hours there just winding them up -not get me anywhere I know -just make me feel a bit better after all the sh*t they put me through.

Would anyone not involved in this bank re-claim buisness actually believe whats happened!! In my own case I have come out of this after 4 years work with a reasonable small profit generating buisness, whilst at the same time had they not "borrowed" something like £15k of my money I guess the buisness would be twice the size now -I can smell another claim coming on -any ideas guys?

Anybody any ideas about a class action? should be able to rustle up a few bodies from the CAG site any thoughts on this?

regards

C

[Keith22]

Hi Capitulator,

I think the first thing to do is to list the various amounts of PPI you had with amounts, dates, how it was sold to you and by whom. Try and fill in as much detail as possible. Then you need to examine each entry to look for evidence of misselling (I'm going to post more about this later this afternoon I hope). If you think there has been miselling you then need to sort out your evidence to back it up e.g if you think your employment status did not match the T & C's can you produce wage slips, contract of employment, company accounts etc to prove it. Similarly if you had pre-existing medical conditions that made the policy useless have you got a record of doctors appointments, photocopies of prescriptions for on-going complaints etc. Once you have all of this you then need to write the letters asking for cancellation and refund of premiums - then keep plugging away until you get either a refund or their Final Reponse Letter. Once you have the latter you can then decide whether to go to the FSO or the CC.

I know this all sounds a bit pedantic but we are all up against a well-oiled machine which will delay and use every excuse to evade refunds. It is vital that you have a well prepared and professional looking approach. The FSO decides a case purely on paperwork so it has to be all up together on your side - you can bet the Bank's will be. If you go to the CC you could end up in front of a Judge and again there cannot be any vagueness in your case.

The T & C's are somewhere on the LloysTsb website - I'll try and find a link later but you should be able to get a copy in your data request. By the way are you a Limited Company?

Capitulator - I'm no expert and have had no legal training but I have spent a year dealing with my cases so I hope this helps. Incidently I provide IT support for solicitors offices ( and even have a District Judge who deals with unlawful Bank Charges amongst my clients!) I have never had any formal advice from any of them but they have given me a few pointers on the best way to present a case.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[reidnet]

Hi,
Here is link to Lloyds TSB Loan Protection Documment.

http://www.lloydstsb.com/media/lloyd...56039_1206.pdf

Hope that Helps

Ian

[The Capitulator]

Hi Ian
Thanks for that I have printed the t&c off and having a good read.
I am not a ltd company I took out the loans for a t/a buisness.
Does the Subject Access Request only cover computer records? or can I ask for copies of the PPI T&C under this also?

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[reidnet]

The Subject Access Request cover all records in any format that they have regarding you and your accounts, this also can include copies of letters etc , Even any telephone calls that have been recorded. I would be tempted to ask for a copy of their Terms and Condition in with the Subject Access Request but they may not supply them.

One thing you could do, if you are passing a Lloyds TSB branch at any time , pop in and ask them if you can have a copy of their terms and condition for loan protection. If they question your rewuest I would say that you have a policy and cannot find your original copy of the T & C. I dont see any reason why they would refuse you a copy. (Unless like me you are known in the brach as a moaning faced old Git...lol )

Ian

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Keith22]

Yes yes yes yes

won won won won!!!

Full refund (taken off my loans) of PPI plus interest. Its only taken a year in total. The FSO assessment arrived today - a very thorough and fair document firmly in my favour. It can be done - keep plugging away.

Now for my third lot of PPI, refund of Business Partner Fees, unawful charges on two different accounts and a refund for DD's paid after cancellation. Plenty to keep me busy there then. How much easier life would have been without all these antics from the Bank over the years.

Can a mod please amend my title.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[reidnet]

CONGRATULATIONS

Its good to hear that you finally won against them..

I too got a settlement from Firstplus the Day for Early Settlement Interest Charged on settling a loan..

Ian

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Keith22]

Hi,

Received a letter from the FSO closing the file on my case - so a most satisfactory outcome. I have today written to the Bank to start the process of reclaiming a third lot of PPI. I pointed out that this was mis-sold to me on a date which came between the dates of my previous PPI claims and that the reasons for mis-selling were identical. Therefore if it went to the FSO the result would be exactly the same. Just trying to speed up the process but knowing how Lloyds like to delay matters they will probably make me go the whole route anyway. Lets see

On a different topic - the sheer variety of cases / circumstances / lenders is becoming masssive. Just picking out a few points:

It is important to establish whether the PPi was a one-off premium or paid monthly.

It is important to establish why the PPI was mis-sold. Usually this is because of problems with employment status, pre-existing medical conditions or making the loan conditional on taking out PPI. The reason I point this out is that I have seen several examples of claims which are very vague and seem related to the borrower not liking the high rate of interest charged for the PPI. Making a successful claim just on this basis is very unlikely and a vague, unsupported reference to mis-selling will probably not help.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[reidnet]

I totally Agree there Keith, You have to have positive grounds if you are going after Mis Sold PPI. I myself am in the middle of World War 3 regarding a Mis Sold Policy..I have spent months on this one, and am just about to hit the court with it. I have totally Exhausted their Internal Complaints Procedures etc etc. I am jusr waiting the final outcome of my complaint to the Information Commissioners Office regarding this comapny then It will be off to court.

Unfortuanately I tried the same route as you Keith with the FOS, In my case they were of no help at all.. The company I am dealing with were not under the Juriscdiction of the FOS at the time the product was sold to me.

You cannot and should not even attempt just to reclaim your PPI on the grounds that you dont like the cost of it and the Interest on it, Im Afraid that just wont wash.

You need to spend Time on this and get all the facts together first before you even attemt to reclaim.

Ian

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Keith22]

Hi all,

Finally received an extra £1107 today as the interest on my refunded PPI. Isn't it strange that they can take money from you overnight but when it comes to refund of interest it can take 21days according to Lloyds. Anyway that is a total of over £5000 so far with the third claim still outstanding. Onwards and upwards

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[reidnet]

Well Done Keith... The beer's on you tonight then..lol

Ian

[Keith22]

For those interested in how LloydsTSB calculate the interest due on refunds they first run off a report showing all the payments that have been made including PPI. They thern re-run the report as though the premiums hadn't been charged to the account and subtract one from the other. They will provide a copy of the reports if asked. I had a great deal of trouble understanding mine!

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.