koko vs LloydsTSB - Loan PPI

[kokomar]

Fantastic, a separate forum for PPI just when I was wondering where to post this!

Sent CCA request and a slightly reworded Subject Access Request 21/10/06.

I have had a loan with Lloyds since 1997 which has been refinanced 4 times giving a total of 5 loan agreements. The first 3 had ppi on them which I'm looking at disputing (in particular the 3rd agreement). The 5th agreement is due to end next month but I'm way behind on payments. I'm already at the court stage with Lloyds on my current accounts for unlawful charges which will clear my overdrafts and the 5th loan.

I have all the statements from each of the 5 agreements, but only the latest actual loan agreement which didn't have PPI on it. Anybody got a copy of the t and c's for Lloyds loan PPI I could have a read of I'd be grateful, particularly the early redemption clauses.

The next post sets out the details of my complaint. Sorry it's so long winded but there was so much information to put down at once.

Koko

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[kokomar]

In Nov 1997 I got my first proper job after uni and took out a graduate loan to buy a car. Loan 1.
Loan 1 £5000
+ PPI £718.95
Total Loan amount £5718.95
Term 48 months @ £145.27
Rate 10.08%

I made 20 monthly payments then in June 1999 refinanced into loan 2. £270 was credited to my current account which I assume was a refund of the PPI.
Loan 2 £5500 (of which £3720.89 from loan 1)
+PPI £638.84
Total Loan Amount £6138.84
Term 24 months @ £281.81
Rate 9.5%

In April 2000 I became self employed and opened a sole trader account. My business manager advised me that it was particularly hard to claim on a PPI policy when self employed and sold me an accident and illness protection policy through Royal Sun Alliance which started in July 2000. I tried to cancel the PPI on my credit and store card at this time (see other threads).

I made 16 monthly payments altogether on loan 2 then in Sept 2000 refinanced into loan 3. £65.15 was credited to my current account which says it was PPI refund.
Loan 3 £6000 (of which £2133.93 From loan 2)
+PPI £1373.52 !!!!! This loan was NOT supposed to have PPI on it!
Total Loan Amount £7373.52
Term 60 months @ £168.52
Rate 13%

I made 10 monthly payments altogether on loan 3 then in June 2001 refinanced into loan 4. £844.80 was credited to loan 3 before it was paid up.
Loan 4 £8700 (of which £5644.16 From loan 3)
+PPI £NIL after an argument with Bank Manager as it shouldn’t have been on loan 3
Total Loan Amount £8700
Term 60 months @ £198.91
Rate 13%

I made 5 monthly payments altogether on loan 4 then in Dec 2001 rang up and asked why I was paying such a high interest rate and would they do something about it or I’d take my business elsewhere. They offered 9.6% there and then over the phone which I accepted and hence loan 5.
Loan 5 £8300 (of which £8172.14 From loan 4)
+PPI £NIL after similar argument with Bank Manager
Total Loan Amount £8300
Term 60 months @ £174.73
Rate 9.6%

1. Loan 3 should not have had PPI on it at all, this was either a mis-sold policy or added on after I signed the agreement so going after £528.72 (£1373.52 - £844.80 Refund) Plus £364.9 Compound interest to date still accruing. Plus £ 142.12 the compound interest on the total PPI charge before the refund.

2. The PPI refunds from loans 1, & 2 were credited to my current account not knocked off the balance of the loan before transfer is this normal? Did I agree to this? The effect of this is that although I received refunds, Lloyds have forced me to pay compound interest on those amounts ever since (£307.41 and £70.76 respectively).

3. Also going to check the amounts of these refunds as loan 2’s refund seems very low, I realise that PPI is front loaded but even so. Where do I stand with statute of limitations on this is it different from the unlawful charges routine I’m becoming familiar with?

2 and 3 are perhaps taking it a bit too far but I’m so angry at them for taking advantage of me! All comments gratefully received.

[Lucycat]

Hi Koko,

Found you at last!

I've had to put letter-writing on hold this week (ah, the joys of half-term!), but will be cracking on this week. Off to find a mod now and see if they can move my Lloyds thread into this forum!

All the best,

Lucy.

[nathal]

I cant offer much advise on this, but in one instance you mentioned there wasnt meant to be ppi.

then why was there? they have to get signature, have you all revelant docs that were supposed to be signed?

i would take this one step at a time.
start at first loan and sort out ppi, then move forward

sorry i cant assist further

[kokomar]

Nathal the short answer is that they saw me coming and rubbed their hands with glee!

My first venture into the business world and I let them scare me into taking a policy to cover accident and illness and took the Bank Managers word for it that any existing PPI policies would be cancelled. I was VERY naive and trusting and they exploited that. Thanks to this site I am questioning everything, not for the money, although that's a huge bonus and will get me into the black for the first time in years, more because these people let me believe they were acting in my best interests, they weren't they were trying to make money out of me, I hate that, and I hate the fact that I was so naive to believe in them. Sorry rant over!

The separate signature for PPI only came into force in 1995, all my loan agreements pre-date this. When my loans were taken out according to the FSA website PPI was an unregulated product. This is crazy since it was included in an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I need to do more reading on this and get my arguments straight before I commit pen to paper.

I have a complete statement history for all 5 loan accounts, but the only agreement I can lay my hands on is the latest one, hence the CCA request.

The argument for recovering the comp int on the PPI refunded into the wrong account is tenuous at best and I'll drop this if I don't think I can make it stand up, the real one I'm gunning for is the PPI on loan 3. This was either mis-sold (as the Bank Manager also sold me a private policy to cover the same thing - double insured by the same company with their complete knowledge) or clerical error at best/fraud at worst. Although some of this was refunded (and for once into the loan account) I believe that if I'd pushed at the time I would have got it all back plus interest. Just didn't know the right questions to ask!

Thank you for taking the time to post I welcome all opinions and help, though I recognised you, how's it going with Open & Direct?

Lucy - There are JOYS in half term week? I must be doing something wrong!

Koko

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[adrianimus]

I was pleased to see someone else challenging/challenged Lloyds (TSB).I took out a 60 Month Graduate Loan in 1998, paid for PPI, though I was unemployed/in non-contractual employment at that time, though expecting the worst which was not challenged by seller.Has anyone the Terms and Conditions of such loans c 1998? No longer hold them and Lloyds slow in producng them!Adrianimus.