Cygnet Finance Sold Us Ppi For Car Loan Whilst Hubby Was Off Work Sick Please Help Us

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi all.

Here is our case/hell.

We bought our present car from Approved Car Finance, financed by Cygnet Financial Services Ltd (offices above car sowroom) in April 2005. My husband was off sick from work at the time. But did have every intention of returning to work.....he didn't.

We have had so much trouble with them since then. They are NOT helpful in any way, shape, or form.

Here's a bit of background information for you.

We were paying approx £460 per month for our car over a 4 and a half year period.

£7,900 CAR APPROX
£7,600 FINANCE APPROX
£7,400 PPI APPROX
£22,500 TOTAL FINANCE APPROX

My husband never went back to work, due to his father getting cancer and me not being well. He legally became my carer in Setember 2005, but was also caring for his father at the same time.

We claimed on the PPI, and were turned down because my husband gave up his job voluntarily and I can't believe this, but, because he had time off off work on past dates to look after me! Now how they would know that I just don't know. Because a doctor cannot disclose information like that. Especially if at the time my husbands sicknote did not state that was the reason why he was incapacitated. My husbands doctor never once wrote on a sicknote that the reason he was off work was to look after me!

We made a second claim a year or so later, as advised by a solicitor and were still turned down for roughly the same reasons.

After this I telephoned Cygnet and said I would like to cancel the PPI. I was told by all means I could do this but I would receive NO REFUND at all and would not be covered for the rest of the car finance term! Just a £25 good will gesture!

I asked how this could be, and was told that the money had already been paid by Cygnet, up front, to the PPI company at the beginning of our car finance (so I am assuming that this is one of the worst types of PPI being a single premium one)

We lost my husbands father in January 2007. Due to this we had to take a loan out for most of his funeral costs, etc, which put in more financial difficulty and we were no longer able to maintain these monthly payments.

Cygnet were aware of these facts and did little, if nothing, to help us. To be honest, I think we missed 2 months payments along the way. One of which was put to the back of the agreement and the other made us constantly under a "DEFAULT NOTICE SERVED UNDER SECTION 87(1) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974" each month if we didn't make the required payments. Around the time we went to court we were served with a Notice of Seizure as we were in breach of our Bill of Sale agreement.

With help from a source off the internet we did find a way to get our monthly payments dropped, legally via a, "Time Out Order Application" which we were granted, in court in 2007 and our monthly payments dropped to £350 per month. Which we have been paying each month since and have not missed a single months payment.

Our circumstances are about to change yet again in a couple of months, for the worse, and we will not be able to keep up with these payments anymore, and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. My husband is still my full-time carer and I have become more unwell. He is just not able to return back to work anytime in the near future.

We would like to make a claim, to have all the PPI we have paid, including interest refunded, but cannot afford to go to one of these companys that charges you 20%+ to act on your behalf. We would also like to see if we are one of the lucky ones that can have the rest of our credit written off due to something that Cygnet have done wrong. We HAVE DEFINATELY been miss-sold PPI.

As a footnote;

1. We weren't told that we didn't have to take out the PPI.
2. We weren't given the option of obtaining PPI from another source.
3. We weren't told that we wouldn't be covered of any pre-existing medical conditions.
4. The finance is a "Bill of Sale" hence, you can't give the car back after so many months into the term and not have to pay any more money.
5. If you give the car back at any time you are liable to still pay for it until the full term of the agreement is completed.
6. We have paid approx £12,500 and still ower approx £10,000
7. I have a copy of the Terms and Conditions, Bill of Sale which has been stamped by the High Court, Policy Schedule, Credit Agreement, our full payment history.

Please could somebody/anybody out there help us legaly to get some money back of these cowboys and help us to do something so that in the next couple of months we don't have to give our car back to them and still have to pay for it and have no car. We have struggled for nearly 3 years and just can't struggle with the last £10,000

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by Cheapbangerplease

Hi all.

Here is our case/hell.

We bought our present car from Approved Car Finance, financed by Cygnet Financial Services Ltd (offices above car sowroom) in April 2005. My husband was off sick from work at the time. But did have every intention of returning to work.....he didn't.

We have had so much trouble with them since then. They are NOT helpful in any way, shape, or form.

Here's a bit of background information for you.

We were paying approx £460 per month for our car over a 4 and a half year period.

£7,900 CAR APPROX
£7,600 FINANCE APPROX
£7,400 PPI APPROX
£22,500 TOTAL FINANCE APPROX

My husband never went back to work, due to his father getting cancer and me not being well. He legally became my carer in Setember 2005, but was also caring for his father at the same time.

We claimed on the PPI, and were turned down because my husband gave up his job voluntarily and I can't believe this, but, because he had time off off work on past dates to look after me! Now how they would know that I just don't know. Because a doctor cannot disclose information like that. Especially if at the time my husbands sicknote did not state that was the reason why he was incapacitated. My husbands doctor never once wrote on a sicknote that the reason he was off work was to look after me!

We made a second claim a year or so later, as advised by a solicitor and were still turned down for roughly the same reasons.

After this I telephoned Cygnet and said I would like to cancel the PPI. I was told by all means I could do this but I would receive NO REFUND at all and would not be covered for the rest of the car finance term! Just a £25 good will gesture!

I asked how this could be, and was told that the money had already been paid by Cygnet, up front, to the PPI company at the beginning of our car finance (so I am assuming that this is one of the worst types of PPI being a single premium one)

We lost my husbands father in January 2007. Due to this we had to take a loan out for most of his funeral costs, etc, which put in more financial difficulty and we were no longer able to maintain these monthly payments.

Cygnet were aware of these facts and did little, if nothing, to help us. To be honest, I think we missed 2 months payments along the way. One of which was put to the back of the agreement and the other made us constantly under a "DEFAULT NOTICE SERVED UNDER SECTION 87(1) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974" each month if we didn't make the required payments. Around the time we went to court we were served with a Notice of Seizure as we were in breach of our Bill of Sale agreement.

With help from a source off the internet we did find a way to get our monthly payments dropped, legally via a, "Time Out Order Application" which we were granted, in court in 2007 and our monthly payments dropped to £350 per month. Which we have been paying each month since and have not missed a single months payment.

Our circumstances are about to change yet again in a couple of months, for the worse, and we will not be able to keep up with these payments anymore, and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. My husband is still my full-time carer and I have become more unwell. He is just not able to return back to work anytime in the near future.

We would like to make a claim, to have all the PPI we have paid, including interest refunded, but cannot afford to go to one of these companys that charges you 20%+ to act on your behalf. We would also like to see if we are one of the lucky ones that can have the rest of our credit written off due to something that Cygnet have done wrong. We HAVE DEFINATELY been miss-sold PPI.

As a footnote;

1. We weren't told that we didn't have to take out the PPI.
2. We weren't given the option of obtaining PPI from another source.
3. We weren't told that we wouldn't be covered of any pre-existing medical conditions.
4. The finance is a "Bill of Sale" hence, you can't give the car back after so many months into the term and not have to pay any more money.
5. If you give the car back at any time you are liable to still pay for it until the full term of the agreement is completed.
6. We have paid approx £12,500 and still ower approx £10,000

Please could somebody/anybody out there help us legaly to get some money back of these cowboys and help us to do something so that in the next couple of months we don't have to give our car back to them and still have to pay for it and have no car. We have struggled for nearly 3 years and just can't struggle with the last £10,000

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

Hello Cheapbangerplease,

You sound like you have been having a terrible time with this company

A few points really

I have a copy of the Terms and Conditions, Bill of Sale which has been stamped by the High Court, Policy Schedule, Credit Agreement, our full payment history. Did you already have these in your possession or did you obtain these via a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).?

Can you remember the date that you rang to cancel the ppi?

Can you post up what is on your credit agreement. You have put these figures, what was the interest rate please.

£7,900 CAR APPROX
£7,600 FINANCE APPROX
£7,400 PPI APPROX
£22,500 TOTAL FINANCE APPROX

Can you come back with this information please, we have to attack them from all angles.

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi Hell

Thanks soooo much for replying to me

Here we go;

I have a copy of the Terms and Conditions, Bill of Sale which has been stamped by the High Court, Policy Schedule, Credit Agreement, our full payment history. Did you already have these in your possession or did you obtain these via a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).? I aready have these in my possession and wouldn't know where to start with an S.A.R...do you think I still need to get one?

Can you remember the date that you rang to cancel the ppi? I'm sorry but I don't remember the exact date. But I do know it wasn't long after we got turned down for our claim on the PPI for the second time which was around the second week of August 2007. I phoned Cygnet themselves and not the PPI company.

Can you post up what is on your credit agreement. I'm not sure what you want me to post up sorry am thick on all this So I will copy the whole thing and delete all our personal info etc This is the original we signed on the day we took the car away. Which by the way has only been signed by us and not dated....does that go in our favour by any chance...lol

Am really peed off now, have been trying for the last hour or so to get a copy of the credit agreement on here I can't even copy and blinking paste it!!!!!! I've scanned it, deleted all our info, scanned it again, put it in "my pictures" on my pc and tried to get it on here via the URL and via Photobucket. But Photobucket won't upload it....grrrrrrrr...OK Photobucket has now accepted two photographs I have taken of the document. I have done the URL bit and here is what I get below.







You have put these figures, what was the interest rate please.

£7,900 CAR APPROX INTEREST RATE APR 45.9%
£7,600 FINANCE APPROX SAME AS ABOVE
£7,400 PPI APPROX - INTEREST RATE APR 42.3%
£22,500 TOTAL FINANCE APPROX

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

[Cheapbangerplease]

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by Cheapbangerplease

Hello,

Although I am not an expert on credit agreements, one thing does spring to mind, it is related to the APR. I don't know if that can be quoted on a ca. I will ask for a second opinion Also I feel it would be deemed a apr of 42.????% is an extortionate credit bargin

I would be of a mind to actually send cynet finance a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and also a request under section 77/78 of the consumer credit act and just see what they come up with and how good their filing is

Will come back with the links later

Send everything recorded delivery and keep everything in a file. You can check when they received it, by going on the royal mail website

[hellhasnofury]

Full S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for ppi costs £10, and well worth the expense. They have 40 days (plus 2days postage) to comply

[postggj]

as i understand it,cygnet is a sub-prime car finance oufit, like welcome finance
i wonder if there agreements are just as crap
any comments

[car2403]

I, for one, agree with hellhasnofury - the prescribed term under s.60/s.61 of the CCA 1974 is the "rate of interest". APR is a "rate of interest" figure, but it includes fees/charges/compound interest throughout the entire term of the agreement, varies throughout and then calculated to an "APR" figure to let you compare loans similar to this one with it.

For me, APR is not accurate enough to meet the requirements of the Agreement Regulations 1983 for these reasons.

In fact, I'm challenging HFC Bank on 2 agreements and Barclays on an overdraft agreement on this very point.

What I can see from the agreement is that the Finance company hasn't signed it? Is that right, or is it just a bad scan/copy? If they haven't, you can argue it's improperly executed. This won't stop them asking for an enforcement order via the Court, but you can argue you were prejudiced by the enforcement due to extortionate credit bargain, the fact you've been missold PPI, charges applied and I'd assume you've been unlawfully Defaulted because of all this. IMHO, this would mean the Court may not allow enforcement.

What you need to do now is to stop doing their work for them - they need to provide you with a copy of their agreement, so we can see what they have or have not got. Send them this, which puts the debt in dispute; (amend to suit)

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Cygnet Finance, account number ******

s.78(1) (s.77(1) for a fixed sum) Consumer Credit Act 1974 request

After recently obtaining a copy of my credit file from Experian I was concerned to note that Cygnet Finance have applied a "Default" against this account in my name. Further to this I don’t have a recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience by supplying the following documentation and information;

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a cheque for £1 in payment of the statutory fee.

2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice

3. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under s.189 of the CCA 1974. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Please take note at this stage, that any action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested. In the meantime please be aware that I consider this matter to be “in dispute”. If you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that this Default entry is removed from my credit file as unsubstantiated and the outstanding amounts are dismissed as being unenforceable.

Yours faithfully

Send it by recorded post, with a postal order - not a cheque - for £1.

Also send them this;

Dear Sir/Madam,

DATA PROTECTION ACT 1984 – DATA SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

I request that Cygnet Finance provides me with all details held regarding my accounts, including;

§ Details of all default charges for unpaid items and fees charged for managing the above account, which I have paid in the last six years
§ Copies of all original Consumer Credit Act agreements for each account held in my name
§ Details of all manual intervention that has taken place on accounts held in my name, with documentary evidence of such.
§ Details of logic involved in any automated decisions you made about me, or my accounts with you.
Please note that this is not an exclusive list, as I require access to all information held by Cygnet Finance regarding me, as a Data Subject under the Data Protection Act 1998.

I understand that Cygnet Finance is obliged to provide this information under the Data Protection Act 1998. I have enclosed a cheque for £10 to cover the statutory fee that can be charged for this service.

I look forward to hearing from you within 40 days from the date of this letter.

Yours faithfully

Again, send by recorded post with a postal order - not a cheque - for £10.

This is going to cost you £11 and some stamps, but this effectively puts the account in dispute. 12 working days later, if they haven't provided the agreement, you are legally not obliged to continue making payments.

If they reply with anything, scan and post it up here and the good people at CAG will be right on it for you.

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi Chris.

Thanks for replying to my thread.

Right, here we go.

The copy/scan of the credit agreement is the ORIGINAL one we received on the day we drove the car away, and is unsigned and undated by them. But hubby seems to remember us signing two of them and us getting the unsigned one....I can't remember...does that make a difference.

We have since received another photocopy of our credit agreement (which I requested so I could send it into court when applying for the Time Out Order Application last year) which is, low and behold, both signed and dated....but alas has exactly the same details on it as ours.

But, funnily enough when I was having a quick read through my paperwork last night, I had a quick look at our Bill of Sale (dated 16th) (photocopy), which is actually dated 3 days prior to the credit agreement (dated 19th) and has our signatures on it.....how can that be? Either we bought the car on the date of the credit agreement being the 19th or on the date of the Bill of Sale being the 16th! AND upon looking again I found that the Bill of Sale had been registered in the High Court (dated 18th) the day before we supposedly took out our credit agreement! I give up!

We still have our car and are still making the monthly payments, but struggling like hell to make them and our circumstances are going to change in the next couple of months for the worst, ie, financially.

I am really weary to enter into a s.78(1) (s.77(1) for a fixed sum) Consumer Credit Act 1974 request fight with them, as they are slippery little suckers and knowing them they would wriggle out of it, somehow.

But, I'm going to send an S.A.R (SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST) off today, via 1st class recorded delivery and templated for me by hellhathnofury....thanks hell Also now with some of your draft added to it...thanks also to you I will also have to send a cheque as I don't have the cash to send a postal order for the next couple of days and I want to get the ball rolling

Question; If the dates on the Credit Agreement and Bill of Sale don't match. Do I have a case to get my car finance quashed or whatever it is that it's called?

I'm here primarily to hopefully, fingers crossed, get back the PPI I have already paid including interest, get the rest of the PPI that is still owing taken off my car finance, which will then drop my monthly payments again which I hopefully will be able to afford then. Anything else that happens in mine and hubbys favour is a bonus.....would love to have the whole flipping thing quashed and have Cygnet Finance out of my life FOR EVER!!!!!

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

PS I'm going to photograph the Bill of Sale and put it one here once I've deleted all personal info.

[Cheapbangerplease]

I've just noticed, that our Bill of Sale has a different amount than our Credit Agreement.

I know this Bill of Sale doesn't include any PPI etc, but what I do know is that the Credit Agreement, without the PPI etc totals £15,465.22...whereas this Bill of Sale totals £14,620.32

So I am asking myself this; Why is there a difference in the totals of £844.90? What have Cygnet added to my finance that they legally aren't allowed to put on the Bill of Sale.....hmmmmmmm

This just gets worse on a daily basis!!!!!

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

PS S.A.R (SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST) being sent off by hubby, via 1st Class Recorded Delivery in the next hour or so................here we go

[car2403]

Do not send them anything with your signature on it - read here;

Digital Signature Guide

Right, are you saying they provided you with a copy of the documents you've already uploaded here previously, but they do contain signatures/dates etc? What is the date of the agreement? What is the date of your signature? What is the date of their signature? This is very important.

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi again Chris.

Right, here we go. I've copied what you've put and added my answers in red.

Right, are you saying they provided you with a copy of the documents you've already uploaded here previously...YES THEY DID THEY WERE THE ORIGINALS WE TOOK AWAY WITH US ON THE DAY WE TOOK THE CAR AWAY, but they do contain signatures/dates etc...NO THE ORIGINAL CA WE TOOK AWAY WITH US ON THE DAY ONLY HAD OUR SIGNATURES ON IT. BUT THE ORIGINAL BILL OF SALE WE HAVE IS SIGNED BY US AND THEM AND DATED 16TH What is the date of the agreement ON THE COPY OF THE CA WE HAVE RECEIVED FROM THEM IT'S SIGNED AND DATED BY THEM ON 19TH? BUT THE ORIGINAL CA WE TOOK AWAY WITH US ON THE DAY WAS ONLY SIGNED BY US AND THE DATE WAS LEFT BLANK What is the date of your signature? ON OUR ORIGINAL CA THERE IS NO DATE IT'S BLANK. BUT ON THE COPY CA THEY SENT TO US IT'S 19TH What is the date of their signature? ON THE ORIGINAL CA THERE IS NO DATE AND NO SIGNATURE EXCEPT OURS. BUT ON THE COPY CA THEY SENT TO US IT'S THE 19TH.This is very important.

What I'm trying to say is that the day we took our car away we took a CA that only had our signatures on and no date...but the copy we received off them last year for court also had a signature on off them and was dated 19th.

The Bill of Sale we took away on the day we drove our car away was dated 16th and had both our signatures on it and theirs as well.

Why has the CA and the Bill of Sale got different dates on them?

Why have photobucket deleted the top part of the credit agreement?

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

PS Chris I have already sent off the S.A.R (SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST) today with both mine and hubbys signature on it