Welcome Finance - missold PPI and part of loan

[fergal71]

I have been stung by welcome with insurances not claimed to be PPI but claiming to be warranty and breakdown cover for car.... has anybody had this... IT is PPI in a different coat... I may ask who provides this insurance... as I am sure it is not welcome... it probably never existed...

[Dipply75]

Hi Fergal

The Finance Leasing assoc codes of practice state that when Welcome sell you insurance, they will tell you who the insurer is (lol).

To me (and in my T&C's) you should be able to demand who the insurer is - as they are responsible for shoddy selling/advice of their brokers, so you need to know who to complain to! they would also be a joint data controller. I will be complaining to Norwich Union for one of mine, the other is a mystery also.

You could try a complaint to the FLA, maybe they can get the info from Welcome for you? (Guessing, have not dealt with them yet myself)

Did you get any policy stuff from them at all? I take it you had no choice in your 'warranty' etc as usual and they were useless anyhoo?

My policy was a bit of useless paper telling me basically - I had a policy, but the T&C's were very interesting reading.

[Dipply75]

Well, they've gone a step too far now. Apparently the manager at the branch that was responsible for all this has now left - discovered this when the new manager called my partners WORK and THEN his mobile to advise they accidentally canx his direct debit in MARCH! So there is now a large amount outstanding - although we couldn't send a single letter or call once in 3 months - what would he like to do about it :o

OH says, well nothing just now until I am sure the bank hasn't paid you anything - while I have you on the phone there is a little matter of late payment charges - I pay weekly on a monthly contract so I cannot be late for 1 weekly payment. Manager states, we will look at those and will refund any due - but about this money.....Friday? You will phone me friday? 12pm on friday? We need to discuss this on Friday (this goes on for a while).

He states he CANNOT put the account in dispute as he needs a date it is in dispute until . As my OH psychic powers were off he obviously couldn't, so the friday thing started again. The emotional blackmail starts then - my bosses are on my back, I have to tell them, not my fault, they need answers or I will be in trouble etc (is this against the new CPUT regs by any chance?)

I am just waiting on the 'if you are behind we can re-finance the loan' thing. I have told him NOT TO SPEAK to them again but I know him - he may not be able to help himself - so he has agreed to record the call. Question - does he HAVE to state he may be recording or not???

OH gets peeved and says I want a copy of your complaints procedure, a statement of account and and early settlement statement. THEN he will compare with bank statements, determine what he owes and what charges are to be refunded and take it from there. Once we agree THEN the dispute will be over.

Manager makes a point of saying (and I quote) - you do know that if I have to come to your house I will charge you £25 a visit. OH tells him he has no permission to visit and this will not be tolerated - manager LAUGHS at him and says he can if he wants..........WELL mr manager - if you visit, you'll get ME. Not the once niave me - the older, wiser, ready to wipe the floor with you ME. Am going to print off a copy of the relevant laws and codes and keep them handy in case they do visit, I can give them these and tell them to toddle off and train themselves.

Sending today - CCA request, letter stating a/c in dispute and why, contact only in writing, harassment letter and full S.A.R.

Also demand to know if OH credit file been marked with late payments etc.

I have hormones today - buggers are getting it

	The Direct Debit Guarantee • The Guarantee is offered by all Banks and Building Societies that take part in the Direct Debit Scheme. The efficiency and security of the Scheme is monitored and protected by your own Bank or Building Society. • If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, we will notify you three working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. • If an error is made by us or by your Bank or Building Society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid. • You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing your Bank or Building Society. Please also send a copy of your letter to us. This is a term of your banking contract and you can sue on it.

	Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

[Dipply75]

OMG - post has just arrived with a squint copy of their complaints procedure - that was damn quick for them lol

[Dipply75]

Drafted this up - will include the big long list of complaints with it - any thoughts would be appreciated!

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing, therefore any calls made to me or my workplace will be classed as harassment and treated as such.

Should it be your intention to arrange any “doorstep calls” or “home visits” please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.12 f: “visiting or threatening to visit a debtor without prior agreement when the debt is deadlocked or disputed”

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

I am disputing the total value of this debt with Welcome Finance due to charges applied to my account with no contractual provision to do so, and for the reasons details in my complaint – enclosed. As such, therefore, I consider this account to be in dispute and no further action shall be taken until this matter is resolved.

I look forward to your written confirmation that this account is formally in dispute. I have received your complaints procedure, which I intend to follow, therefore you assertion that you cannot place and account in dispute unless I commit to a date the dispute will end is unfair, impossible to predict and misleading.

Failure to correspond in writing only, hold this account in dispute or continue to chase for payment, however, will see the matter referred to Trading Standards, The OFT and any other authorities as I see fit and without further notice:

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

I am extremely concerned at the motive behind contacting my workplace before attempting to make any contact with me personally regarding Welcome Finances mistake with the Direct Debit and the resulting outstanding balance. Had a single letter been sent or phone call been made to me directly I would have answered promptly, as you will see from your records, I have always done. Therefore the only reason I can assume from your actions was to publicly embarrass me for no apparent reason. As my position at work requires a large amount of trust and various security requirements, you have risked my employment and caused embarrassing questions to be asked by my employer by implying I have debts I am hiding from (creditor having to resort to contacting employer raises this implication alone).

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.6 i: “disclosing or threatening to disclose debt details to third parties unless legally entitled to do so

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.6 j: “acting in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor either deliberately or through lack of care”

Therefore, I will be registering a serious complaint with the OFT, Trading Standards and the Information Commissioner regarding this. Please confirm your reasons for this action and what was discussed when you contacted my workplace, which I will confirm with my employer.

In summary:
Please note that all communication must now be in writing.
I am placing this account formally in dispute (see enclosed complaint) – please confirm this has been actioned and that no attempts at collection will be made until this is resolved.
I do not give you permission to visit my home, or to contact my workplace again.
Please clarify why contact was made to my workplace when no attempt was made to contact me personally for 3 months.
Please clarify what was discussed during this phone call.

As I wish to expedite matters, should you have any queries or require further information please include this in your response and I will reply promptly.


Yours sincerely

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

	The Direct Debit Guarantee • The Guarantee is offered by all Banks and Building Societies that take part in the Direct Debit Scheme. The efficiency and security of the Scheme is monitored and protected by your own Bank or Building Society. • If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, we will notify you three working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. • If an error is made by us or by your Bank or Building Society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid. • You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing your Bank or Building Society. Please also send a copy of your letter to us. This is a term of your banking contract and you can sue on it.

[Dipply75]

If I can post the credit agreement signed, could someone have look over it please?

I will then put on the statement they supplied - to me its v different from the agreement

[Dipply75]

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...75/Picture.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...an2blanked.jpg

OH did not tick the box at the bottom for the PPI - advisor did. The only thing he did was sign where he was told to when the form was slid across the table to him - while she held the other end!

Any expert eyes would be greatly appreciated

[Dipply75]

** bump!**

[Dipply75]

Help!

Have to ask about 'acceptance fees'..... on the contract signed it listed them separately from the interest charged - but in the statements received they have included the £75 from the start and been charging interest on it.

Agreement - total amount of credit: £4562.86
Statement - opening balance (inc.£75 shown): £4637.86

Received a reply from them this morning - again, damn quick, but it is pathetic.

I sent the letter in post 25, with the only change being that the complaint was to follow - not enclosed. This was their reply:

Final Response to your complaint (they haven't received it yet?)

Thank you for bringing to our attention your request for a copy of your signed credit agreement (still highlighed from the copy & paste they obviously did)

I have now reviewed all the outstanding issues and thank you for remaining patient while this matter was under investigation (complaint not sent yet?)

After looking into your complaint I have enclosed a settlement letter for your account (what?) I have also enclosed a copy of the agreement that you signed in January 2006. A statement was ordered via our central processing unit on 17th June which you should receive in the next few days.

I can confirm that all communication with you by this branch will be in writing.

I await written confirmation of your complaint (it states final response above?)

If I do not receive any further contact from you regarding this matter .....(standard 8 weeks then contact FOS blurb).

So they have used their FOS final response template to reply to me with gibberish.

The copy of the agreement they included is just a photocopy of the front page, reduced to fit sideways on an A4 sheet? Not enough methinks!

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[TANZARELLI]

Originally Posted by Dipply75

Help!

The copy of the agreement they included is just a photocopy of the front page, reduced to fit sideways on an A4 sheet? Not enough methinks!

I had one of those from them for my 3rd loan they obviously didn't know how to use the photocopier. Also all loan copies were missing the T&C's. I have the originals anyway they sent these copies in a Subject Access Request.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Dipply75]

Hi Tanzarelli, does this comply with the CCA request? I don't think so, but want to be sure!

[leedspete]

got me S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) (from welcome)from previous agreements but they don't make any sense.it has something called capitalization which i don't understand also they haven't cancelled my insurance from my current agreement . what do i do next plz

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Dipply75]

Hi Leedspete
I have the same capitalization shown on the statements - it must be the interest but I am looking into it to make sure it is just another word for it and not another way of applying interest that makes a difference to the account. I know I read something somewhere about capitalization - now I need it I can't find it!!

Have you written to them to instruct cancelling the insurance?

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[leedspete]

yes i have but they haven't and im near the end of the 30 days allowed

[citizenB]

I have to be honest and say I dont know for sure if this is enforceable. However if OH did not agree to the PPI element then you could put a claim in for mis selling. If they do not respond favourably to your complaint, then contact the Financial Ombudsman. They are going to town on companies that have mis sold PPIs.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge of the agreement will pop in soon.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[Dipply75]

Thanks citizenB, I have a long list to throw at them (see post 11) but before I send the complaint away I just want to see if there's anything on the agreement to add to the list!

My local Manager is about to have a very bad week

Lovin the avatar, makes me smile every time I see it

[citizenB]

hehehe, yes your list is certainly a long one

Thank you, the bopping kitty certainly seems to cheer people up. I believe Hellhathnofury is the PPI supremo it could be worth sending a pm. Dont go into detail, just pm a link and ask for a lookin.

[Dipply75]

Help again! Is there anyone that can advise quickly on this, I am drafting the very looong compalint right now and just need to clarify this:

Help!

Have to ask about 'acceptance fees'..... on the contract signed it listed them separately from the interest charged - but in the statements received they have included the £75 from the start and been charging interest on it.

Agreement - total amount of credit: £4562.86
Statement - opening balance (inc.£75 shown): £4637.86

If anyone could help I'll owe them a big box of jaffa cakes!

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[alanalana]

Hello diply,

permission to copy the FLA link and stick with the other links in links in the stickies please,

aa

[alanalana]

Hello diply,

would you mind if I copy this link
FLA :: Consumer finance :: Consumer Codes of Practice
from your thread and put it in links in the stickies?

Thank you

aa