POC for PPI - Do we have any?

[johans]

Originally Posted by karinata

Hi there I use this for my PPI claim....hope it can be of help to someone else, you may need to adapt bits.....

The Claimants took out a secured loan on xx/xx/xxxx via a telephone call to the Defendant.
Claimants were told that the PPI was absolutely necessary in order to proceed to obtain the associated credit.
The policy was not defined nor explained and not considered "optional".
At the time of undertaking the secured loan, the Claimants were misled into procuring Payment Protection Insurance as part of the overall credit.
This is in breach of CCCA 1974, where a company must be fit to be involved in activities the licence covers.
The policy was not needed or requested as Mr X's employers operate a policy of full pay for 12 months of sickness,death in service benefits, and in addition to this there was critical illness cover and life insurance already in place.
PPI only applied to 5 years rather than full term. This is also in breach of Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999, where a term is unfair if “contrary to the requirement of good faith if it causes a significant imbalance in parties rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of consumers”.
There was over-reliance on information sent through the post, which again breaches CCA 1974 and is therefore negligent in line with 1967 Misrepresentation Act.
Under CPR18 claimant requests full documentary evidence of absolute compliance with best practise in sale of PPI and detailed record of training undertaken by staff.
The Claimant further contends that if the Insurance was applied correctly, that the Agreement was not executed in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974;
i) As the Insurance was in fact a charge for credit on the Conditional Sale Agreement, it could not also be part of the credit on the additional insurances agreement as under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit even where time is given for their payments
ii) If the Insurance was not a charge for credit in respect of the Conditional Sale Agreement, as it was compulsory, it was a charge for credit on the additional insurances and under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit
iii) For the reasons stated in either (i) or (ii) above, the agreement for additional insurances failed to state the correct amount of credit and did not comply with paragraph 2, schedule 6, which requires that regulated agreements contain as a prescribed term stating the correct amount of credit
iv) The agreement for additional insurances was therefore improperly executed under section 61 (1)(a) of the CCA.
The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from XX/XX/XXXX to XX/XX/XXXX of £XXXX.XX and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £X.XX

thanks karinata!

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

[UK26]

any update?

[pinknico]

"The Claimant further contends that if the Insurance was applied correctly, that the Agreement was not executed in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974;
i) As the Insurance was in fact a charge for credit on the Conditional Sale Agreement, it could not also be part of the credit on the additional insurances agreement as under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit even where time is given for their payments
ii) If the Insurance was not a charge for credit in respect of the Conditional Sale Agreement, as it was compulsory, it was a charge for credit on the additional insurances and under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit
iii) For the reasons stated in either (i) or (ii) above, the agreement for additional insurances failed to state the correct amount of credit and did not comply with paragraph 2, schedule 6, which requires that regulated agreements contain as a prescribed term stating the correct amount of credit
iv) The agreement for additional insurances was therefore improperly executed under section 61 (1)(a) of the CCA."QUOTE


Would someone very clever mind explaining the above in simple english as I am sure I will need this POC shortly! Thanks

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by pinknico

"The Claimant further contends that if the Insurance was applied correctly, that the Agreement was not executed in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974;
i) As the Insurance was in fact a charge for credit on the Conditional Sale Agreement, it could not also be part of the credit on the additional insurances agreement as under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit even where time is given for their payments
ii) If the Insurance was not a charge for credit in respect of the Conditional Sale Agreement, as it was compulsory, it was a charge for credit on the additional insurances and under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit
iii) For the reasons stated in either (i) or (ii) above, the agreement for additional insurances failed to state the correct amount of credit and did not comply with paragraph 2, schedule 6, which requires that regulated agreements contain as a prescribed term stating the correct amount of credit
iv) The agreement for additional insurances was therefore improperly executed under section 61 (1)(a) of the CCA."QUOTE


Would someone very clever mind explaining the above in simple english as I am sure I will need this POC shortly! Thanks

Hello Basically it means that the agreement that state the ppi is as such

You loan say £20,000 over Ten years.

PPi costs £4.800

The then add them together and charge interest on the both over ten years at their interest rate.

So you find that they added £4,095 in interest alone for the ppi. So infact the ppi cost you over £9,000 for the privilige.
There is lots of useful information relating as to what is require to make an agreement properly excuted and enforceable under the cca.

Have a look at the thread agreement enforcebility from page five onwards

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[pinknico]

Originally Posted by hellhasnofury

Hello Basically it means that the agreement that state the ppi is as such

You loan say £20,000 over Ten years.

PPi costs £4.800

The then add them together and charge interest on the both over ten years at their interest rate.

So you find that they added £4,095 in interest alone for the ppi. So infact the ppi cost you over £9,000 for the privilige.
There is lots of useful information relating as to what is require to make an agreement properly excuted and enforceable under the cca.

Have a look at the thread agreement enforcebility from page five onwards

Thanks for that,both my secured loans were set out like that.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[pinknico]

Can you point me in the direction of that thread about agreement enforceability please?

[alanalana]

Hello pinknico,,

Please see this link from the debt collection forum stickies section

Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

aa

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

[pinknico]

Originally Posted by alanalana

Hello pinknico,,

Please see this link from the debt collection forum stickies section

Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

aa

Thanks aa .

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by pinknico

Can you point me in the direction of that thread about agreement enforceability please?

Hello pinknico,

Hey AA you are getting quicker

This is the thread I was referring to regarding info on the enforcebility of credit agreement. I will have to read the one AA posted up

Read from page 5 onwards for the info relating to ppi on agreements

Agreement Enforceability

See if this helps your understanding

[pinknico]

Originally Posted by hellhasnofury

Hello pinknico,

Hey AA you are getting quicker

This is the thread I was referring to regarding info on the enforcebility of credit agreement. I will have to read the one AA posted up

Read from page 5 onwards for the info relating to ppi on agreements

Agreement Enforceability

See if this helps your understanding

Thanks HHNF that is the one I am after!

[mocca]

what line do you take if what you are claiming is that they sold you the policy. you thought the cost of the policy was say £2000 and they in fact took say 60% of the sum as a fee/commission?

[citizenB]

Originally Posted by mocca

what line do you take if what you are claiming is that they sold you the policy. you thought the cost of the policy was say £2000 and they in fact took say 60% of the sum as a fee/commission?

Mocca, have a look at the following links they might offer some advice for you.

secret commisions

G E Money and Secret Commissions

[sjp123]

Hi All,

I used a company called Clear Claims. I didn't pay for it; well £10 to get my Data Protection Act files. So fair game.
Think it took about 14 weeks to get the money back; but i'm happy

[sjp123]

i've found the link now. it was clearclaimsnortheast.co.u k (sorry, not clear claims) p.s they did my buy to let morg for me too!!!

[SupermanX]

Hi

I've copied my POC which i drafted using the above thread for a credit card ppi claim versus Egg as well as Egg's defense.

It looks like the argument for Conditional Sale Agreement+ Credit charge does not stand for credit cards and only for loans??

Can someone have a look at my POC, point 5(b)ii, as well as Egg's defense, in that respect

1)do i need to amend my claim? what shall i do?

2)does anybody have a copy of Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations SI 1983/1553?

Particulars of Claim

1- The defendant's company is an online bank.
2- The Claimant had a credit agreement with the defendant which was opened around XXXX.
3- The Claimant's credit card account has been debited with payment protection insurance premiums without his knowledge and consent.
4- The insurance was mis-sold.

5- The Claimant contends that:

a) The Insurance imposed upon the Claimant were neither defined nor explained, nor alternatives from other suppliers suggested.
b) The Claimant further contends that if the Insurance was applied correctly, that the Agreement was not executed in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974;
i) As the Insurance was in fact a charge for credit on the Conditional Sale Agreement, it could not also be part of the credit on the additional insurances agreement as under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit even where time is given for their payments
ii) If the Insurance was not a charge for credit in respect of the Conditional Sale Agreement, as it was compulsory, it was a charge for credit on the additional insurances and under section 9 (4) CCA credit charges cannot be treated as credit
iii) For the reasons stated in either (i) or (ii) above, the agreement for additional insurances failed to state the correct amount of credit and did not comply with paragraph 2, schedule 6, which requires that regulated agreements contain as a prescribed term stating the correct amount of credit
iv) The agreement for additional insurances was therefore improperly executed under section 61 (1)(a) of the CCA.

6- The Claimant claims:

i) Compound interest on the charges applied thereon to the Claimant’s account (“the principal claim”), at the annual rate of XXX %. This is the rate applied by the Defendant to the Claimant’s unauthorised use or borrowing of the Defendant’s monies, as provided for in the contract. The Claimant’s case for claiming this rate is based in equity, and a legal requirement for fairness and balance.
ii) In the alternative to i), if the Court is unable to agree that the claimant is entitled to the contractual rates of interest, on the grounds stated, the Claimant avers that the defendant would be unjustly enriched if the Claimant’s entitlement was limited to the statutory rate of interest in that the defendant has had use of the sums and would have used these sums to re-lend at commercially compounded rates. On these grounds the Claimant seeks restitution of the compounded contractual interest at the defendant’s authorised borrowing rate of XXX % per annum.
iii) In the alternative to i) and ii), if the Court finds that the Claimant is not entitled to contractual interest, the Claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984.

7- SCHEDULE OF CLAIM FOR CHARGES
PERIOD: [XXXXX] TO [XXXXX]


Eggs Defense:

-"As to paragraph 5(b) above it is denied, if the same be alleged, that the optional PPI policy was required by the terms of the regulated Agreement which constituted the claimant's account with the Defendant. As to paragraph 5(b)i it is denied that the PPI policy constituted a charge for credit, the PPI policy was not compulsory, it was optional. It is denied that the agreement between the claimant and the Defendant is a conditional Sale Agreement as alleged. Paragraph 5(b)ii is denied. It is presumed that the reference in paragraph 5(b)iii to Paragraph 2,Schedule 6 is a reference to Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations SI 1983/1553. It is denied that the paragraph referred to, which relates to fixed-sum credit, is of any relevance to this matter. Paragraph 5(b) iv is accordingly denied. The defendant reserves the right to serve an amended Defense addressing this issue in the event that is revised"

Tks Super

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[citizenB]

Originally Posted by SupermanX

2)does anybody have a copy of Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations SI 1983/1553?

You will probably find it on one of the posts in the following thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ct-1974-a.html

[SupermanX]

Thanks

[Captain Rex]

Your POC looks a bit messed up, only use a POC from a sticky and check any legislation your self before using it.
You have shot yourself in the foot with point 3 by then going on to claim the contract was improperly drafted.
No problem if there is in fact a prescribed term missing.
Take a look at the Misrepresentation Act 1967, this puts the requirement of proof on to the defendent.
Something like, 'I say I did not consent to PPI as you misrepresented the facts at the time the agreement was being discussed by failing to inform me that PPI was available from another source'.

Clarifying the above prima fascia caveat emptor applies to the Misrepresentation Act 1967, however your credit card company were acting as insurance agents when selling the PPI and therefore were negligent in their duty by not telling you that PPI could be obtained from another supplier.
A newbie, only offering general commentary.
Get stuck contact the site team.
If you do not get a reply within 48 hours send a PM, with a link to the relevant thread, to any Site Team Member.

[SupermanX]

Thanks for your advise.

I believe i have the possibility of modifying my claim for a fee once submitted. So hopefully i can get this rectified

[Captain Rex]

Should have added this to my post. Read through these then pull something together: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...uidance-notes/
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...cases-library/
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...tutes-library/
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1090641
and contact the site team if you are still stuck.