Mis-sold PPI First Plus

[cokezero]

Hi all,

First of all let me apologise for the length of my post and the fact it may frustrate some with my issues.

I am looking for some guidance as I am about to begin the process of re-claiming back a single payment PPI premium from First Plus. I am at this moment tearing my house apart looking for original paperwork in regards this claim. I am sure many of you will understand that I lost track of a lot of my paperwork as I ended up owing lots of money to different people and was hounded by debt collectors and the like. I am still not out of the woods with most of the things still outstanding, so forgive me for not having everything to hand as of yet.

I am also sure many of you will understand that I have been under mega stress for a number of years now and I can feel my stress and fears bubbling up as write this. The up shot is that I find it very hard to keep my concentration when dealing with this - sometimes I am consumed with dread that I am the one who will lose out - it will be time barred, etc, etc. So I s'pose in a way I have a tremendous dread of failing in my endeavour to reclaim my PPI premium back.

The back ground is that I took out a Loan with First Plus either 2001 or 2005. The loan was roughly for 35 000 with an add on of 7000 for PPI. Part of the deal was a that I get repaid the 7000 if I never claimed or missed any payments during the first 5 years. I believe that the PPI only protected me for 5 years (maybe less) of payments should I become unemployed.

However, this is I really begin to worry that I have lost out. I re-mortgaged at the end of 2005. As part of re mortgaging I had to settle up the First Plus loan. When I got the settlement figure through I was shocked to see that I was to receive only around 500 of the original 7000 premium. They refused to enter into any discussion and I had to accept the offer as it meant I could not get the remortgage (I was over a financial barrel at the time). I subsequently complained to the FSA - sadly though the FSA registered my complaint and First Plus responded I never followed this up - and nothing ever came of my complaint - this is my first fear that I have missed the boat.

Secondly, I feel that the policy may not have given me the protection it was meant to offer as I had previous history of Depression and back pain and also, and still working this out, I dont believe the type of work I was doing at this time would have fallen within the scope of regular employment. Also feel at the time I was not really given the option of not taking the loan without the PPI.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

I look forward to reading any support, advice and comment you all may have.

Best regards.

[cokezero]

I would like to add that I remember that when they only gave me the 500 refund from the original 7000 Premuim they pointe to the fact that they state in the paperwork that the on early seattlement that the rebate of the original PPI premuim would be 'substantially reduced' no mention of any figure.

[alanfromderby]

I would say from what you say that you do have a valid claim. The fact that you started an Ombudsman claim in 2005 would not preclude you from taking the court route. It may also be worth giving the FOS a ring to see if you can revive your original complaint.

In the meantime, I would suggest you issue a Data Subject Access Request for full disclosure of all documents that First Plus hold in your name. This will cost you £10, but at least you will be able to see what the policies say, and what forms you signed etc.

[cokezero]

Thanks for the reply Alan, I appreciate it, I will get the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) away on monday. In the meantime i will endeavour to find what paperwork I do have - I am sure I have the orginal agreement and policy booklet.

Alan, in regards my original complaint to the FSA it has just struck me that my complaint at that time was that they only paid me back 500 of the original 7000 PPI premuim.

Cheers

[alanfromderby]

It is important to establish exactly what type of loans you had - and how the PPI was applied. It is only then that you will have any idea of the amount owed. If they front-loaded the interest it could be a substantial sum.

[cokezero]

Alan,

Thanks again. Thats me sent of the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), today.

Cheers

The 40 day countdown (which i wont start until this friday), but does it include weekends and also what about bank holidays etc?

[alanfromderby]

40 calendar days....and anyway, they charge interest and apply charges etc on public holidays, so why should everything that benefits us come to a halt.

[cokezero]

Originally Posted by cokezero

Alan,

Thanks again. Thats me sent of the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), today.

Cheers

The 40 day countdown (which i wont start until this friday), but does it include weekends and also what about bank holidays etc?

On Wednesday 16-01-2008, I followed up my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) as I had heard nothing from Firstplus. Prior to me phoning Firstplus (FP) I checked with Royal Mail the status of my Recorded Delivery item to FP. Royal Mail then inform me that it would appear that my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) was not delivered - well they dont have any record of it having been delivered.

Next I phone FP and ask them if they are in a position to fulfil their requirements as per my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). They have me holding and then come back and say they dont have any record of it - straight away they ask if i sent it recorded delivery? I reply yes I have. They then ask for the recorded delivery number to establish if it had been signed for? I never gave them the number and informed them that I would check it myself and that unless they can confirm at this time that they are complying with my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) then I would be going straight to the Information Commisioner (Information Commissioner).

On arriving home tonight I find that I have a parcel from FP with documentation in relation to my FP loan. Firstly after having a quick glance through the paperwork I find no paperwork in regards the PPI, except refrences in the loan paperwork to the PPI. I know for a fact other paperwork is missing - no copies of any letters they sent me in regards to the many occassions they increased the interest rate.

Also in the parcel was a tape (in regards recorded telephone calls), however, in their covering letter I find they state 'Unfortunetly the first two calls between yourself{sic} were not recorded.' - how convient is that!!! Also, and they make no reference to the fact, there are no recordings of our calls to question their redemption figure in regards the PPI rebate being less than 3% of the original premuim.

I am going to read through this paperwork tomorrow, I will compare to some paperwork I already had. But in the mean time all suggestions in things i should look for and note would be greatly appreciated.

I have been avidly reading through some of the other posts and have a couple of questions if anyone could be so kind to clarify for me. Firstly the loan was in joint names so should the PPI be suitable to both the borrowers? Next, I am may be picking this up wrong but when people talk about a single premuim being added to the loan does this also cover the scenario of a lender saying they loaned money which was then used to pay the premuim. Also by doing this, is this in it self a condition that would deem the insurance mis sold?

Also anyone thinking of sending an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to FP should consider sending it so as its delivery to FP is gaurenteed to be recorded.

Had a quick look at the agreement and it seems that only my wife was covered for accident, sickness and industry unemployment, but both of us had joint life cover. this is at odds with my first post (see first post in this thread) in which i talk of myself having cover. Though it was myself that dealt with all the telephone calls. They never spoke to my wife on this issue.

Can I thank those in advance for any responses they give me.

[cokezero]

Originally Posted by alanfromderby

It is important to establish exactly what type of loans you had - and how the PPI was applied. It is only then that you will have any idea of the amount owed. If they front-loaded the interest it could be a substantial sum.

Had a look at the actual agreement: and this is the gist my words are given in Bold:

It is headed firstly by FP Logo with the disclaimer about home being at risk.

Then it states'Credit Agreement' 'Account Number xxxxxxx'

'This secured Loan Agreement is made between FIRSTPLUS Financial Group PLC ("us", "we", The Lender") of The Avenue Business Park, Pentwyn, Cardiff CF23 8FF and the person(s) ("You", "The Borrower"), whose details are set out below.

Then it is boxes with name(s) and address.

it goes on

We have agreed to make the Loan specified below on the terms set out below and overleaf. The Loan will be secured over the address "the Property" specified above, by Standard Security which is attached.

and then the figures given

Amount of Advance £30000

Optional Payment Protection Premium £7000

Total Loan £37000

Monthly Interest Rate 0.783%

(Variable to reflect a change which has occurred, or which we reasonably expect to occur in interest rates generally, or to ensure that our business is carried out prudently, efficiently and competively)

APR (Assumes no variation in rate) 9.9%

Estimated Number of Monthly Payments 180

Monthly Payment £380.35

(Variable by notice to you if the interest Rate varies or, in the case of the first payment, when this is due more than 30 days after execution of the Agreement)

First payment made on xx/xx/2003

Payment Protection

You have opted for the Payment Protection Plan Yes has been ticked

Two further statements with tick boxes follow which state:

1. Single Life, Accident, Sickness and Industry Unemployment
2.Joint Life and Single Accident, Sickness and Industry Unemployment

The box for the second one had been ticked. My wife has then signed as 1st borrower and I as Second Borrower.

[cokezero]

Also when I settled the loan early I asked that the insurance policy is not cancelled and then after 5 years I would get my full costs back, FP refused and stated they would not allow this and that the Insurance Policy must be closed along with the Loan Agreement as I was trying to re mortgage and the new mortgage company would not give me my mortgage unless the FP account had been settled at this time I had to accept FP conditions.

PS It would appear that along with the initial telephone calls setting up the agreement and the ones were I dispute the conditions of the settling my FP acount are aslo missing.

[cokezero]

Sorry folks for continous posting and I will slow down once the red bull wears off... anyhow searching through the forums / stickies I see this London North Securities Ltd v Mr and think does this apply to me, does invalidate the whole agreement therby i should get back ALL interest paid in respect of the total loan including refund of the PPI initial payment?? Or has the red bull affected my levels of optimissim.

Just realised that refers to CC Act 1974 which does not cover my loan as the amount of my loan is not covered under the CC Act (1974)

Cheers

Jim

[cokezero]

I have been reading through the site also i have been listening to the tapes of the recordings taken when I was dealing with Firstplus when taking out the loan. And leaving aside the fact that they are claiming they do not have copies of my earlier calls where I believe i was told that I could not have this loan without taking the optional PPI. Despite the fact that it was a joint loan, FP only ever discussed the terms and limited exceptions of the PPI with me alone( A PPI that related to my wife and not me). Would this then mean that this particular piece of legislation

"Barclays Bank v O’Brien (1993) 4 ALL ER 417
To avoid constructive notice the lender should arrange a private meeting with the other partner in the relationship (usually the wife) without her husband being present to avoid him putting undue influence on her. The mortgage lender should inform her of the possible consequences of the mortgage on her interest in the property and her possible liability. The lender should then inform her it would be advisable that she takes independent advice. In this case the husband had used undue influence on the wife and the bank failed to arrange a private meeting with the wife. It was held that because the bank had failed to arrange a private meeting with the wife the bank’s application for sale of the property was subject to the wife’s interest in the same property."

may come into play as it was a secured loan.

[alanfromderby]

There is quite a bit in the PPI stickies on the relevant caselaw. As the claim for misselling of PPI is not based on the CCA so that is not a problem.

With a variable loan, you will need to take the initial payment, then add on the individual monthly interest amounts that relate to the PPI.

Deduct any refund you may have had off the initial PPI amount, then enter all those figures on the relevant dates into one of the Bank Charge spreadsheet (Bank Template Library) and this will calculate 8% interest which should be added on top.

[cokezero]

Originally Posted by alanfromderby

There is quite a bit in the PPI stickies on the relevant caselaw. As the claim for misselling of PPI is not based on the CCA so that is not a problem.

With a variable loan, you will need to take the initial payment, then add on the individual monthly interest amounts that relate to the PPI.

Deduct any refund you may have had off the initial PPI amount, then enter all those figures on the relevant dates into one of the Bank Charge spreadsheet (Bank Template Library) and this will calculate 8% interest which should be added on top.

Alan will do that this evening.

Cheers

Jim

[cokezero]

Redone the figures please see post further down