PPI on HSBC loan

[loz]

Starting a thread here because I think I may have a case. Was forced into a loan 3½ years ago after changing jobs and reaching my overdraft limit, HSBC would not give me a temporary increase and offered me no option but to take the loan. A year or so later and for whatever reason I found myself in the same position again, and HSBC made me take another loan to cover the first one and my overdraft.

I don't have any paperwork for the first loan (Data Protection Act request should produce that among other things) but the copy I got of the current loan agreement has made me think. I noticed that where I have signed to take up PPI, the date is in someone else's writing, whereas on the loan itself I have clearly written the date myself. Thinking back I recall the lass in the branch calling me up to say I'd forgotten to sign something, and sending the agreement back to me with the PPI bit highlighted... I was stressed out about it all and can't work out why I firstly didn't sign there, then after I was pressed did sign.

Hopefully my Data Protection Act request will fill in some blanks. I know for a fact they did not ask about pre-existing conditions, such as the depression which I was probably suffering again at the time the loan was arranged; but I think I may have been coerced into signing for the PPI.

*deep breath*

Loz

[loz]

I've procrastinated over this, mainly because I knew it would take some brainpower to unravel. Firstly all I got from my Data Protection Act request was copies of the loan agreements & the PPI charges (though no T&C for any of it), statements, and confirmation that they have no recordings/transcripts of calls. No sign of any notes made by staff or anything else. (something to hide..?)

First loan of £1500 was forced upon me in May 2004 when I had just changed jobs; going from weekly to monthly pay meant 5 weeks without income and this was HSBC's response to me requesting a (temporary) overdraft increase. By the time it was arranged I was already £200 past my limit of £750. I ticked the boxes for PPI (£260) and together with interest it came to £2243-01 payable over 3 years.

Being as unskilled in financial matters as I am, I again skimmed my overdraft limit a few times and HSBC had stung me for £687 worth of charges by the time I was forced to take a second loan in July 2005. I had not missed any payments on my loan but was nearly £600 over my limit due to those charges, and was pushed into replacing the first loan with a new one for £3000 plus £750 PPI plus interest - total £5231-81 over 5 years.

This second loan particularly is bothering me, PPI-wise. I was depressed and completely stressed out at the time and I am now convinced they pushed me or took advantage of me, to get my signature for PPI. I remember signing the agreement (despite cursing them all the way) and I think I may have decided against the PPI as an unnecessary expense. I definitely remember the branch ringing to say I'd forgotten to sign something and sending it back - the implication being that unless I signed this I wouldn't get the cash. In my confused state I signed it, probably without looking at what I was signing for. This would explain why the date on that part of the form is not in my writing - either that or they forged my signature

I'm sure this PPI was mis-sold, what does anybody else think? It is probably useless anyway if I had to make a claim based on depression/stress which is clearly pre-existing, no of course they didn't ask me about that...

I'm at least due the interest on the £687 charges (which I have already reclaimed) - I make this to be £271-47. I would however appreciate any advice the good old CAG could give me before I start writing letters

Cheers,
Loz

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by loz

I've procrastinated over this, mainly because I knew it would take some brainpower to unravel. Firstly all I got from my Data Protection Act request was copies of the loan agreements & the PPI charges (though no T&C for any of it), statements, and confirmation that they have no recordings/transcripts of calls. No sign of any notes made by staff or anything else. (something to hide..?)

First loan of £1500 was forced upon me in May 2004 when I had just changed jobs; going from weekly to monthly pay meant 5 weeks without income and this was HSBC's response to me requesting a (temporary) overdraft increase. By the time it was arranged I was already £200 past my limit of £750. I ticked the boxes for PPI (£260) and together with interest it came to £2243-01 payable over 3 years.

Being as unskilled in financial matters as I am, I again skimmed my overdraft limit a few times and HSBC had stung me for £687 worth of charges by the time I was forced to take a second loan in July 2005. I had not missed any payments on my loan but was nearly £600 over my limit due to those charges, and was pushed into replacing the first loan with a new one for £3000 plus £750 PPI plus interest - total £5231-81 over 5 years.

This second loan particularly is bothering me, PPI-wise. I was depressed and completely stressed out at the time and I am now convinced they pushed me or took advantage of me, to get my signature for PPI. I remember signing the agreement (despite cursing them all the way) and I think I may have decided against the PPI as an unnecessary expense. I definitely remember the branch ringing to say I'd forgotten to sign something and sending it back - the implication being that unless I signed this I wouldn't get the cash. In my confused state I signed it, probably without looking at what I was signing for. This would explain why the date on that part of the form is not in my writing - either that or they forged my signature

I'm sure this PPI was mis-sold, what does anybody else think? It is probably useless anyway if I had to make a claim based on depression/stress which is clearly pre-existing, no of course they didn't ask me about that...

I'm at least due the interest on the £687 charges (which I have already reclaimed) - I make this to be £271-47. I would however appreciate any advice the good old CAG could give me before I start writing letters

Cheers,
Loz

Hello Loz,

Were was the first post you put on the forum been hiding

The first thing that springs to mind, is how these financial institutes prey on the most vunerable, as your trusted bank they are well aware of financial difficulties their customers are having.

The sad thing is that we were so grateful to them but now we are a bit wiser in their strive for profit.

You must start the ball rolling with them, start the process in reclaiming back your ppi, ppi interest they charged and then interest at their contractual rate

If you need help, advice etc, just shout

[loz]

Originally Posted by hellhasnofury

Hello Loz,

Were was the first post you put on the forum been hidin

The first thing that springs to mind, is how these financial institutes prey on the most vunerable, as your trusted bank they are well aware of financial difficulties their customers are having.

The sad thing is that we were so grateful to them but now we are a bit wiser in their strive for profit.

You must start the ball rolling with them, start the process in reclaiming back your ppi, ppi interest they charged and then interest at their contractual rate

If you need help, advice etc, just shout

Hi HHNF,
You caught my blond moment, I initially posted this under HSBC...

I'm not sure exactly the difference you mean by the interest on the PPI and the contractual rate - the way HSBC do this is to work out what the total interest will be over the 5 years and add that to the balance up front rather than adding it monthly

Having made 2½ years worth of payments I am obviously about halfway through - adding up the PPI + PPI interest + interest on the original charges makes up half again of the remaining balance

Once I've done this, if I wanted to complain about the way I was forced into the loan in the first place would that be worth pursuing?

Cheers,
Loz

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by loz

Hi HHNF,
You caught my blond moment, I initially posted this under HSBC...

I'm not sure exactly the difference you mean by the interest on the PPI and the contractual rate - the way HSBC do this is to work out what the total interest will be over the 5 years and add that to the balance up front rather than adding it monthly Yes you are correct, they add the premium and the premium interest together and its front loaded loan. When I mention the contractual interest, I mean you add the premium, premium interest together, and then calculate the daily interest at the interest rate they charged you ie 8.9%, 14.9% The interest rate per month/annum, not hte APR there is a difference. But we can discuss this a bit latter. This is from the date the loan started. Like the bank charges, you can ask for the statutory 8%interest, from the date the took the charge to the day they pay it back.

Having made 2½ years worth of payments I am obviously about halfway through - adding up the PPI + PPI interest + interest on the original charges makes up half again of the remaining balance Even if you are half way through the term there is still ppi and interest in the balance owing, so you want the whole lot back.

Once I've done this, if I wanted to complain about the way I was forced into the loan in the first place would that be worth pursuing? Even whilst you are doing this, you tell them that you will be reporting their conduct to the Financial Services Authority, Office of Fair Trading and Trading standards, and do it anyway, the more complaints the better.

Cheers,
Loz

Hello Loz,

I have put some comments in red for your attention. There are some very helpful people on this forum who are all willing to help and advise, so I hope you will feel at home here.

Thank you for the click of the scales, you are more than welcome

Don't forget, any question, query, just ask and if we don't know the answer, we will find out

[loz]

Thanks again HHNF, the agreement says the "interest rate per annum" is 14.9%, which is the same as the quoted APR; however it then says the "simple rate" is 13.97%.

Will be writing a nice letter tomorrow, brain too tired to start now :P

[loz]

My letter is in the post - as well as asking for the charges interest/PPI+interest back I have also disputed their recent claim that I missed a payment some time (unknown). They sent me a statement as part of my Data Protection Act request and I can't see anything wrong - my SO bounced once because of their damn charges but I found alternative funding so as far as I'm concerned I made that payment, and the statement backs this up.

I found some more evidence that they were implying I wouldn't get the loan without PPI - on page 3 of the agreement after the sig box for PPI there is a section regarding the setting up of a standing order:

By signing above, I/we authorise you to pay from my/our current account XXXXXXXX
(a) to yourselves, an arrangement fee (if any), an initial repayment of £87-01 and 59 further repayments of £87-20 all in accordance with the Schedule above
(b) to my insurers, the Personal Loan Protection Plan balancing payment and the amount of my Personal Loan Protection Plan loan, amounting in total to £753-80

Nowhere else on the agreement is there any other reference to setting up a standing order for £69-76, which would be the monthly repayment without PPI.

Loz

[loz]

Letter dated 26th Feb from one Richard Johnson (senior manager, regulated complaints and review), stating that he will investigate my PPI complaint and other departments will handle the rest. Usual stuff about replying within 4 weeks.

[loz]

An other letter dated 20th March regarding my PPI complaint, unsurprisingly telling me they are still investigating... they have 12 days tops I reckon before their 8 weeks are up and I can go to the FOS.

The other issues I raised - they are still claiming that I missed a payment but can't make up their minds when! I've been told 3 different dates by 3 different HSBC staff, November 2007 then October 2006 and now September 2006; I keep telling them that the statement they gave me contradicts their claims but they really are determined
If nothing else it's a fun game and a legitimate way of disputing the account, which is quite useful at the moment

Finally I explained my reasons for requesting repayment of the interest on the charges portion of the loan (£271-47 of £687-00), and their response is as follows:

I can see that you were refunded £737-24 in November 2007. Please note that I will not be looking to refund any interest.

Well actually it was November 2006 but the charges that became part of this loan were reclaimed in May 2006 - can I really push for this interest to be refunded even though I accepted full & final settlement on that refund?

Loz

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by loz

An other letter dated 20th March regarding my PPI complaint, unsurprisingly telling me they are still investigating... they have 12 days tops I reckon before their 8 weeks are up and I can go to the FOS.

The other issues I raised - they are still claiming that I missed a payment but can't make up their minds when! I've been told 3 different dates by 3 different HSBC staff, November 2007 then October 2006 and now September 2006; I keep telling them that the statement they gave me contradicts their claims but they really are determined
If nothing else it's a fun game and a legitimate way of disputing the account, which is quite useful at the moment

Finally I explained my reasons for requesting repayment of the interest on the charges portion of the loan (£271-47 of £687-00), and their response is as follows:

Well actually it was November 2006 but the charges that became part of this loan were reclaimed in May 2006 - can I really push for this interest to be refunded even though I accepted full & final settlement on that refund?

Loz

Hello Loz,

What was their response Loz

[loz]

Hi HHNF,

Not sure what you are asking, perhaps I need more coffee...

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by loz

Hi HHNF,

Not sure what you are asking, perhaps I need more coffee...

Hiya Loz,

No I think I need to wear my glasses, I mis-read your post. You stated their response at the top of the post

Do hope I have not sent you into caffene overdrive yaya yaya

[loz]

How lovely of HSBC to keep giving me reasons to dispute this account and therefore delay paying the arrears I do have - a letter dated 9th April claiming my monthly payment was not made. Erm, yes it was, it left my account on the 1st and the details on the standing order are correct

Loz

[loz]

I found my original agreement with T&C attached, correct me if I'm wrong but I can't see anything that allows them to share my info with CRAs... which they clearly have been doing



Loz