Mc vs Welcome (court stage)

[mcfadwmc]

I'm at the court stage vs welcome and have gained a very good peice of info which should help the majority of people claiming from before 2004 to do with PPI, healthcare, Lifecover etc.

It's a slightly different route than the mis-selling but it has a much stronger legal grounding for being awarded refunds

if anyone is at court stage vs welcome please PM me so i can give you some info and get some help with my directions etc

PS. don't really want to share it on the forums yet in until my case is paid out just in case their legal dept are reading

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by mcfadwmc

I'm at the court stage vs welcome and have gained a very good peice of info which should help the majority of people claiming from before 2004 to do with PPI, healthcare, Lifecover etc.

It's a slightly different route than the mis-selling but it has a much stronger legal grounding for being awarded refunds

if anyone is at court stage vs welcome please PM me so i can give you some info and get some help with my directions etc

PS. don't really want to share it on the forums yet in until my case is paid out just in case their legal dept are reading

Hello MxFad.

MMMMmmmhhh how interesting, is it only relating to WF or can it be used for other companies. If it is please please pm me.

Anyway please pm me for info, I would be good to know for advice. I will be a good girl and not post it on the general forum promise

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by mcfadwmc

ok finally received their defence. won't post the full thing just the important bits. any help would be greatly appreciated

it's 30 points long but i'll only post the points which i need some sort of response to

a. It is not admitted that the defendant mis-sold PPi and healthcare insurance to the claimant and the defendant puts the claimant to strict proof of the same.

b. the defendant contends the following circumstances must be considered in relation to the claimants claims regarding PPI and healthcare insurance;
i) The claimant was aware of the terms of PPi and healthcare insurance prior to entering into the agreement and associated policies
ii) the terms of the products were set out with sufficient clarity as to be clearly understandable and with sufficient clarity so as to enable the claimant to be aware at the outset of the amount he would pay
iii) the claimant would have been free to select not to purchase PPI and healthcare insurance.

c. The defendants as agents are responsible only for the selling of the insurance policies. direct group as providers of the insurance policies are responsible for their administration. accordingly the defendant denies any liability for the improper administration of the policy

the next stage will be to come up with a draft order but i'm having trouble with writing it. The following is a start of the point for the order i would like to DJ to sanction.

1. defendant to supply information in relation to the number of policies sold at ****** branch in 2003 and the number of loans agreed at the same branch to determine the percentage of borrowers who took out cover on unsecured loans.
2. defendant to disclose training documents given to members of the same branch in relation to the selling of these policies how staff test if the borrower is suitable for the policy on offer.
3. defendant to disclose the amount of this policy which was paid to the defendant in commision for selling this policy.
4. defendant to disclose the amount which was paid (if any) to the sales person who sold the loan.
5. defendant to disclose the calculations used to reach settlement figures.


1. claimant to disclose all evidence in support of the claim of being mis-sold PPI and healthcare
2. claimant to disclose calculations in relation to the amounts claimed in repayment of interest


anybody got any ideas on the defence points or things for a draft order

Hello Macfad,

I do think the best person to pm is Itsme VS Welcome Finance

Itsme is quite a way down the court route with WF and I am sure she will be very informed re defence etc. Reidnet is away at present I'm afraid, so he probably won't get your message.

Will have look around the sight for info for you.

Maybe another person to pm would be tomterm8 he is very knowledgeable

[hellhasnofury]

something weird is going on with this thread, it disappeared on the main page after I left a post.

[itsmeandonlyme]

Dear McFad,

I do not want to dissapoint you, but you won't receive the answers you would normally expect:
I had asked same question N 2, reply i had received is:

As stated above( question 1) WF doesnt employ dedicated staff in thier branches.Following the introdaction of the regulation of the sale of PPI in Jan 2005 by FSA, WF trains its staff to those standards.We can only locate an introduction to the business bookletfrom 2003 and the relevant page relating to the insurance is enclosed.Historical training materials were not kept and are no longer availible, hence we cann't supply the information thatwould allow the question asked in the introduction booklet to be answered.

Itsme

I also have an answers to your question 3 and 4..and they are no better than the answer above...
So i am looking forward to hear what Mr O is going to tell you)))))))

Itsme

[mcfadwmc]

don't know where this thread has disappeared to but hopefully this bump will put it back in the forum

thanks anyway for any help

[mcfadwmc]

not sure how these forums work but i'm guessing at 22.23pm this thread might go in the right order. not sure how i've managed to post a message a day in the future!!!

[mcfadwmc]

ok finally received their defence. won't post the full thing just the important bits. any help would be greatly appreciated

it's 30 points long but i'll only post the points which i need some sort of response to

a. It is not admitted that the defendant mis-sold PPi and healthcare insurance to the claimant and the defendant puts the claimant to strict proof of the same.

b. the defendant contends the following circumstances must be considered in relation to the claimants claims regarding PPI and healthcare insurance;
i) The claimant was aware of the terms of PPi and healthcare insurance prior to entering into the agreement and associated policies
ii) the terms of the products were set out with sufficient clarity as to be clearly understandable and with sufficient clarity so as to enable the claimant to be aware at the outset of the amount he would pay
iii) the claimant would have been free to select not to purchase PPI and healthcare insurance.

c. The defendants as agents are responsible only for the selling of the insurance policies. direct group as providers of the insurance policies are responsible for their administration. accordingly the defendant denies any liability for the improper administration of the policy

the next stage will be to come up with a draft order but i'm having trouble with writing it. The following is a start of the point for the order i would like to DJ to sanction.

1. defendant to supply information in relation to the number of policies sold at ****** branch in 2003 and the number of loans agreed at the same branch to determine the percentage of borrowers who took out cover on unsecured loans.
2. defendant to disclose training documents given to members of the same branch in relation to the selling of these policies how staff test if the borrower is suitable for the policy on offer.
3. defendant to disclose the amount of this policy which was paid to the defendant in commision for selling this policy.
4. defendant to disclose the amount which was paid (if any) to the sales person who sold the loan.
5. defendant to disclose the calculations used to reach settlement figures.


1. claimant to disclose all evidence in support of the claim of being mis-sold PPI and healthcare
2. claimant to disclose calculations in relation to the amounts claimed in repayment of interest


anybody got any ideas on the defence points or things for a draft order

[mcfadwmc]

hello

bit of an unusual request but here's why

i have an issue with welcome which i have included within my claim. I was quoted a settlement figure which i paid in full. when i went in with the cheque they said my last payment had bounces so i owed them another 300 which i paid separate to the cheque. when i got my statement of account it shows a reducing balance with the lump sum settling the loan balance to £0. then a "transfer in" of £300 (my extra payment) making my account £300 in credit then a "transfer out" of £300 making it back to zero.

In welcomes defence they say that these transfers are due to the missed direct debit but thats already accounted for before the lump sum was paid by "returned direct debit" marker.

So does anyone have a copy of a statement of their loan from welcome showing a returned direct debit that i could use for my court case. by all means blank out the account details. it's just so i can show the judge that this transfer is nothing to do with the missed direct debit payment and that actually they've 'mistakenly' taken an extra payment from me

[mcfadwmc]

directions have come through from the court.

i had asked that training records be disclosed of employees who sold loans, amount or percentage of loans sold to first time customers without PPI in 2003-4, amount or percentage of loans sold to repeat customers without PPI in 2003-4, profit made on each policy....etc

but unfortunately DJ says no as "court being of the view that this is disproportionate and of little evidential value to the claim."

but DJ has ordered that they supply original documents including leaflets and policy wording (which they've told me they don't have) and then the following bit that i have to do.....

"The claimant shall provide signed statement setting out all evidence which he intends to rely upon. The claimants statement must in detail set out the facts relied upon in relation to his allegation of mis-selling and identify, so far as is possible, the defendants employees involved"

now i've managed to get the names of the employees but i can't get them to go as witness so what use is identifying them.

secondly what should i put in my statement of evidence... any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

by the way deadline for submission of this stuff is middle of january so got a couple of weeks to work on it.


The rest of the stuff i'm claiming is getting pretty water tight but if anyone else has got a copy of a loan statement showing returned direct debt payments then i'd be eternally greatful as it's evidence for another part of my claim.

to recap my claim is for;

mis-sold / mis-administered PPI
Interest paid to welcome in relation to these PPI amounts
mis-calculation of early settlement (quoted as penalty interest)
retaining of a wrongful credit
disbursal fees
then interest at County court rate from end of loan till now


any ideas what should go in my statement of evidence