***RBS PPI Claim Long fight but, WON***

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

I'd go back and tell them exactly what you want.

S-P-E-L-L it out for them.

If they try to hide behind banking interpretation of what a Subject Access Request is, then elaborate for them, and escalate your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) until they realise you Demand everything. An onerous Subject Access Request, the one where a Data Controller has no option but to ferret out every last scrap of information that even mentions you by name or Account, or anything that relates in any shape or form to you.

These people mess about, so make it Plain English. I want [This] and I want [That], and especially anything to do with [Thingy].

Just fill in the Brackets!

Cheers,
BRW

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[alanalana]

Hello Brw,

their letter is copied to Information Commissioners Office tomorrow, to add to all the others linked to my complaint.

If you check all postings on my thread. I have several times asked for all details, all telephone recordings or transcripts. I guess their denial of paperwork by letter on two loans would mean they could not then later produce this missing paperwork as evidence nor any information on telephone conversations in Court or to the FOS.

I will prepare one last letter pointing out the Requirements of the Data Protection Act 1998 and ask why they have not produced the appropriate destrucion certification for the missing paper work as they are required to retain this paperwork for 5 years see this............
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/...ations2007.pdf Part 3 19. Record Keeping.

Copy of course to the Information Commissioners Office.

I have also requested the destruction, deletion or erasure information on any of my data if they are unable to produce it. Now that they state they do not have it and the link above says they should I will demand the full certification of the destruction of the records.

Let's see what they say then!!

aa

PS you have the most appropriate handle on the site BRW

I will also call the Information Commissioners Office for an update on my complaint.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

The trouble is, bankers and the truth are often very strange bed fellows.

The System also seems to do very little to punish them when they have clearly either been exceptionally inefficient (but always in their own favour), or have clearly trotted out a long series of Terminological Inexactitudes.

All you can do is keep it cold, polite, clinical and straight to the point.

If this ends up as a bun fight in Court, then all of your careful work may yet come together.

PS you have the most appropriate handle on the site BRW

You should've seen my first attempt! It was too rude towards bankers, and I had to make it more polite. BRW was my second choice!

Have a good one.

Cheers,
BRW

[alanalana]

Hello BRW (alias???)

I can keep it cold, clinical and straight but polite is becoming a little difficult.

The System also seems to do very little to punish them when they have clearly either been exceptionally inefficient (but always in their own favour), or have clearly trotted out a long series of Terminological Inexactitudes.

One of the better qualities of the banking fraternity.

It did work on bank charges for a while up until the Court hearing then all claims were stayed. As you mentioned earlier in our contact the PPI is virgin territory and the first claims will be the pathfinder for later claims. ( A learning curve so to speak ). That is why I consider it important to question everything the banks say, even down to whether the word in the letter is taken as singular or plural.

Have a good one yourself will keep all posted on progress as slow as it is!!

I do not aim to end up initially in Court I believe the FOS is the first step. If that fails it gives me the Court option if I do it the other way round and lose in Court the FOS would not look at it. At least this would give me two avenues to attack.

I have already lodged a complaint with the Information Commissioners Office and sent a formal complaint to Information Commissioners Office, FOS, FSA, OFT, BBA ( I sent the BBA letter recorded as it is banking ).

regards

aa

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

Good point about FOS first and Court 2nd...must remember that!

Must head off for my beauty sleep soon, but my Wife says it's not working! No matter how much beauty sleep I get, I still wake up looking like a butt ugly silver back gorilla!

Cheers,
BRW

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[alanalana]

Hello Brw,

Nothing wrong with a butt ugly silver back gorilla.
Question would you argue with one?
Could be your last ever argument.

aa

[alanalana]

Hello my response to the Bank and it ready to post.

Thank you for your letter at reference.

This letter in response is now item 23 in correspondence regarding my Subject Access Request first submitted on 7 January 2008.

I do not accept your letter as proof of missing paperwork in relation to the two earlier loans I held with the RBS. Specifically as I have on numerous occasions asked for certification of destruction of any data which you cannot produce. This certification documentation has not yet been received! I can therefore assume the data is still retained within your files or archives. I require you to supply me with the data or a certification of disposal, erasure or destruction of the documentation.

I believe that you are required by law to retain documentation on closed accounts for a period of 5 years from the date of the last transaction under the terms of the Money Laundering Regulations 2007 Part 3 19 record keeping.

You also make the statement in paragraph 1 that, and I quote “ This does not form part of a Subject Access Request but we have forwarded this to our PPI Complaints Team”.

I would wish to inform you of the following: Under the terms of the Data Protection Act 1998 as the Data Subject making the request for information held as data by your Data Controller, I am legally within my rights within the Act to request you to provide me with any and all data. This data may be in whatever form that you may hold, including paper, electronic, magnetic tape, digitised, or any other form including archived material which relates to me as an individual. This will include loan documentation, emails, letters. telephone conversations, in fact any records which you may hold against myself as the Data Subject.

Paragraph 2 of your letter states that the two loans with the DLFS have been passed to the relevant department. You informed me of this fact in your letter of 17 April 2008. To date I have received no communication from the “relevant department“!
Please expedite an immediate response as the 40 day statutory time limit from 7 January 2008 has now been well exceeded.

Paragraph 3 of your ref states that, and again I quote “We have been in touch with staff at Peterhead branch and they have no record of any telephone conversation between both parties”

In this instant I will insist on clarification that my request within the Subject Access Request was for information on all telephone conversations and not just one. I therefore require confirmation that there are no records of any telephone conversations in regard to any current or refinanced bank loans or any other subject between both parties, namely myself and the RBS staff at the Peterhead branch.

In light of your failure to respond to me fully by 30 April 2008, as requested, I will now inform you that I have issued a very serious formal complaint highlighting your failure to abide by the Law as prescribed within the Data Protection Act 1998 to the following offices:

Financial Services Authority
Office of Fair Trading
Financial Ombudsman Service
Information Commissioners Office
British Bankers Association

lets see how this goes down. Thankfully I do not have a mortgage with them.

aa

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

Nothing wrong with a butt ugly silver back gorilla.
Question would you argue with one?
Could be your last ever argument.

If you see a DCA straggering around with clumps of hair missing, one shoe, a dazed look and a bunch of Banana's stuck up his bottom, then you can ask him how it went!

Cheers,
BRW

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

The Letter looks good, send it!

OK, must head off to my pit now!

Cheers,
BRW

[alanalana]

Hello BRW,

am I keeping you up with late posts. My last one is my last one for today

aa

[hellhasnofury]

Hello

You two are like night owls or maybe vampires:o

Loved the letter aa, you keep at them

As you are aware I am very interested in the relevant legislation/guidence regarding the certificate of destructions for information that is no longer required by the creditors.

The RBS and their fellow NatWest are notoriously bad at keeping any records, if they think you may bring rightful trouble to their door, they just state they don't have the information. Not even the current running accounts. Unfortunately this makes me more determined, so I need to know if there is anything to throw their way.

Any thoughts

[alanalana]

Hello HHNF (aka hell) and all CAGers.

Thank you for your post.

As you are aware I am very interested in the relevant legislation/guidence regarding the certificate of destructions for information that is no longer required by the creditors.

I am having a real tussle with RBS and the data they do or do not have.
The latest letter states we cannot find the paperwork on the two previous loans. Yet they have already sent me the statements for those two loans and the surname was incorrect on one of them.

There is a statute for retention of documentation supplied by Rory one of the nice Mods....legal thread area, this is the link....http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/...ations2007.pdf Part 3 19. Record Keeping.

The Data Protection Act on the other hand states records should only be kept for as long as necessary. (Clash here in regulations) but the crux of the matter is the destruction of records and as I see it the Data Protection Officer has a legal responsibility under the Data Protection Act 1998 to notify subjects if data held which relates to them is destroyed then they should be notified and informed that the relevant data was destroyed in the correct manner.!! and is correctly certified by a qualified data protection officer.

You see some of the links and you will see that RBS and others have been disposing of sensitive data in the bin outside the office door!!

It seems under these regulations in the above link they have to retain records for 5 years after the last transaction on the account or the closure date.

As you will see myself with RBS and BRW with his MBNA claims are really up in arms! (we are even hijacking local postmen).

I am now over 4 months down the Subject Access Request line and still do not have everything requested.
I have a complaint lodged with the Information Commissioners Office and have sent a letter of complaint to everybody (check the threads ). The Information Commissioners Office are really stuffed with complaints ( Cannot understand why ) and the time scale for response has slipped from 14 days to 28 days and they are behind with this time scale. My complaint 2 April (cannot forget that birthday 21 again!) Is not likely to be responded to for another week. This is going to be a long haul.

Hell it seems to me that the Data Protection Officers have been totally neglecting their duties in some organisations, possibly because they are not aware of all the regulations. I would check with Rory and confirm that the link is definately relevant as it is a 2007 regulation in relation to historical claims for missold ppi going back a few years.

I will endeavour to keep you informed of findings as I proceed.

MY letter is ready to go with copies to the Information Commissioners Office.
To send or Not to send that is the question??

PS don't cross BRW he is really a gorilla ( check the posts )

regards to all CAGers.

aa

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[alanalana]

Hello all,

Update on my post 47. I have today received acknowledgement from Financial Ombudsman Service they will respond fully in due course.

aa

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[alanalana]

Hello all,

a further update on post 47. Today I received response from FSA.
Too long to post the whole thing but three items of interest.

1. The FSA cannot intervene in or investigate complaints against the firms we regulate on behalf of the public; this is the role of a separate and independent body, the Financial Ombudsman Service (the Ombudsman).

2. Steps to resolve your complaint where cause of complaint occurred before 6 April 2007
If you have dealt with a firm which is a member of the Finance & Leasing Association (FLA), you may have access to the FLA conciliation and arbitration service

. (full contact details were supplied - if anyone needs the info just post).

3. How we have used your information
We have shared the details of your complaint with the department that supervises this firm because the problems you have encountered in receiving the requested information may indicate wider concerns about the firm's ability to meet our standards. You should. however, still follow the steps of making a complaint.

Complaint already lodged with the Information Commissioners Office and FOS.

No response as yet from the Information Commissioners Office re Data Protection Act 1998 complaint

aa

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[alanalana]

Hello all,

A response from the Information Commissioners Office.

Response to letter to Information Commissioners Office received by me 21 May 2008
Thank you for your correspondence received 31 March 2008, and subsequent
correspondence, regarding your subject access request to Royal Bank Of
Scotland.
Please accept my apologies for the delay in acknowledging you, our office is
currently dealing with large volumes of work. This has meant that we have been
unable to deal with incoming correspondence as promptly as we would like.
The matters you have raised will be assigned to one of our casework teams
before being allocated to a case officer who will respond in line with our current
service standards, copy enclosed.
Should you wish to contact us about this matter please quote the above
case reference number. Failure to do so may delay the processing of your
request.
If you would like to contact our Helpline please call 08456 30 60 60, or 01625 54
57 45 if you would prefer to call a 'national rate' number.
——— -Yours^sineerety - - —— —- —-
Signed on behalf of
Mr Paul Arnold
Head of Customer Service
Enc:
Service Standards
Information Commissioner's Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF
1:08456306060 f: 01625 524510 e: mail@ico.gsi.gov.uk w-.Information Commissioners Office.gov.uk

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

How's it hanging, Dude?

...our office is currently dealing with large volumes of work...

I bet they are! UK plc is busy going to hell on a handcart, and the bankers just don't know who to Default next...all the Columns on their Bleed-Em-Dry Financial Screens have suddenly all started to go Red and some have even started blinking as well!

At least you have heard from the Information Commissioners Office. I have at least two Complaints with them. Well, I think it's two, maybe it's one, as I keep getting Information Commissioners Office and FOS muddled up! Could be one each! No replies to either, so far.

You may like this...one of my latest CCA Requests was Refused Delivery at the bank's Registered Address! Can't say which one yet, as a stiff complaint has been lodged with FOS...or was it the Information Commissioners Office? One of them, anyway.

A bit naughty that, but I may've given the game away as CCA was written on the package. One look at that, and they turned it away so fast anyone would think it was a ticking Parcel Bomb.

Hope your little battles are going OK?

I have one Loan with PPI that I may have a pop at, as it's nipped off and closed, as it rolled into another one. Might be an idea to shove a stick into that particular Hornets Nest and waggle it about a bit. All I want from that would be the PPI and, if I get that, it could set the stage for getting the others back. But I'm holding that back, because if the later Loan turns nasty, then I can roll on with a Refund Claim for a double helping of PPI on the two related Loans, and stir in a few Charges as well...that they have helpfully been adding these last couple of Months (whilst in Dispute).

I'll have a little think about that, and will keep you posted. If I do, I'll Post any additional useful PPI detals here on your Thread.

Keep your chin up, you will get there in the end. There, that's a Bump and a Hijack all rolled into one! You can have your Thread back now!

Cheers,
BRW

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[alanalana]

Thank you for the response BRW,

You may like this...one of my latest CCA Requests was Refused Delivery at the bank's Registered Address! Can't say which one yet, as a stiff complaint has been lodged with FOS...or was it the Information Commissioners Office? One of them, anyway.

Now there is a surprise! I have so far had two recorded delivery letters go missing (compensation two books of first class stamps) and I am about to lodge a third complaint for non delivery of a letter the the British Bankers Association the letter was in my post 67. (followed by a comprehensive letter of complaint to Royal Mail about a totally shoddy service).

It's a slow haul but I am trying to follow all the processes to ensure nothing is overlooked.

This was the response by the FSA...
Letter received dated 12 May 2008
Thank you for your letter dated 1 May 2008.
Your enquiry
You have contacted the Financial Services Authority (FSA) in relation to an ongoing
complaint you have with The Royal Bank of Scotland. In your correspondence it appears that
your current complaint is in relation to your request for information from the Bank. This is in relation to your consumer loans you have taken with them. I have assumed that this information may potentially lead to further complaints regarding the loans themselves.
Our response
The FSA cannot intervene in or investigate complaints against the firms we regulate on
behalf of the public; this is the role of a separate and independent body, the Financial
Ombudsman Service (the Ombudsman).
As you wish to make a complaint about The Royal Bank of Scotland, you should:
• first complain to the firm to give them an opportunity to investigate your complaint
and, if appropriate, put things right; and (Already done remember this is just for failing to provide me with the information requested in the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).)
• ask the Ombudsman to consider your complaint if the firm does not give you a
satisfactory response within eight weeks. (Already done as S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 7 Jan and not complied with fully. FOS have acknowledged my complaint about non compliance with S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) I await detailed response when they have investigated).
The enclosed FSA guide 'Just the facts about making a complaint' provides further
information on the complaints procedure, including contact details for the Ombudsman.
Additional information
As already indicated I am of the opinion that this may lead to a further complaint regarding loans. I have therefore provided the following information regarding this aspect of your enquiry.
The Financial Services Authority
25 The North Colonnade Canary Wharf London E14 5HS United Kingdom
Telephone +44 (0)20 7066 1000 Fax +44 (0)20 7066 1099
Financial Services Authority

Any prompts as to whether I now submit my claim for refund of PPI to the bank as it seems they are not providing the information. I have details on three loans including the CCAs Single premiums etc or do I hold out for the Information Commissioners Office and FOS responses?

Regards to all
aa

[alanalana]

BRW and all,

The response from the FOS (Ombudsman) was as follows:

Letter response received 7 May 2008
Acknowledgement
Thank you for your correspondence, which has been received safely.

We are currently receiving very high volumes of enquiries and we will provide you with a full response as soon as we can.
If you need to contact us in the meantime, please quote reference number XXXXXXXXXXX

I await the full response It would be nice to see comprehensive action by them.

aa

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

...ask the Ombudsman to consider your complaint if the firm does not give you a satisfactory response within eight weeks...

The above quote from the FSA is worth highlighting I think, as I was wondering about when, exactly, I could be certain to have exhausted the banker's own Internal Complaints Procedure and be sure any Complaint to the Financial Ombundsman Service (FOS) could then go ahead.

For the benefit of others, this is a good point to lock into. FSA can only handle certain Complaints, and FOS won't want to look at any others unless this Key Timescale of eight weeks has been exhausted.

I think the Start of most Complaints can be regarded as the Date that, say, a s77-79 CCA Request is Delivered. That may explain why many bankers send back a bog standard Letter saying how they will deal with your Complaint by X Date.

Many people on CAG, myself included, tend to say: "Hold on, I don't know why they said that, as I did not make a Complaint, as such, all I did was submit a s77-79 Request".

But the bankers ARE aware that such a Request IS regarded as a Complaint, so if they have any sense, they know the eight weeks have Started. Looking back, I can see now that Dates they have given me when they say they will respond (but most never do respond by then), were indeed bang on eight weeks after my s77-79 Request.

The whole point of my mentioning this, is that before anyone can complain to FOS, people need to be aware that FOS requires that the banker's own Complaints Procedure has been followed through before they can get involved (unless it's an acute issue, like grabbing Mortgage Money from your Account or Refusal to Accept Legal Letters at their Registered Company Address etc).

Given how bankers like to drag some things out, they could avoid dealing with a Complaint for ever without it ever being dealt with. So, it is good to know that the issue does have a Defined Maximum Timescale, and that Timescale is eight weeks.

When the bankers keep sending later and later Letters, with later and later Dates when they will respond, i.e. saying: "Sorry for the delay, this matter is taking us longer than expected to deal with, but we will now respond by Y Date." What this really means, is they are hoping you will let them drag it out, as they can't be arsed to actually do anything.

The good news is, whilst they will try to do this, just ignore them, and wait for the eight weeks to expire. If they have not resolved things to your complete satisfaction, then you can complain to FOS after the eight weeks have expired...and mention the Dates so FOS knows they can't send you back a lukewarm Letter saying please try to discuss this with your bank.

Far better to start any Complaint to FOS etc with: "righty-ho FOS, my annoying bank has failed to deal with my Complaint within eight weeks, so now I wish to really Complain, and Complain to YOU."

FOS can't then sweep anything under the Carpet, and have to crack on with things. The Step One Box has been Ticked, so they can crack on with what you have to say.

Complain to FOS before the eight weeks have expired, and they may well give you a Fob Off Letter, as they will be busy with other Complaints.

I hope this makes sense, but I felt it was something people needed to be aware of.

It might be a good idea to Start a Thread to outline who handles which Complaints. I may do that, as it's not that clear who you should moan at and when. There's no point having a Toot at one, when they don't deal with that type of Toot!

Cheers,
BRW

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[alanalana]

Hello BRW,

The good news is, whilst they will try to do this, just ignore them, and wait for the eight weeks to expire. If they have not resolved things to your complete satisfaction, then you can complain to FOS after the eight weeks have expired...and mention the Dates so FOS knows they can't send you back a lukewarm Letter saying please try to discuss this with your bank.

Far better to start any Complaint to FOS etc with: "righty-ho FOS, my annoying bank has failed to deal with my Complaint within eight weeks, so now I wish to really Complain, and Complain to YOU."

You can complain to the FOS earlier. If the bank has given you a flat refusal to refund PPI stating that they consider this a final response. If you get that response from the bank (at anytime before the eight weeks) then the eight weeks timescale goes out of the window and you can complain straight to the FOS.

Any prompts as to whether I now submit my claim for refund of PPI to the bank as it seems they are not providing the information. I have details on three loans including the CCAs Single premiums etc or do I hold out for the Information Commissioners Office and FOS responses?

from my earlier post.

In the light of further extensive possible delays and due to the banks admission of no records (even though I received statement copies) on two of the contested loans. Should I now submit my claim for three missold PPIs and see what the bank comes up with?

Regards

aa

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.