***RBS PPI Claim Long fight but, WON***

[alanalana]

Hello all,

I have a question on CCA 1974 and section 77 subsection (3) it states that subsection (1) does not apply to---
(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or
(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

I take it that this means that under section 77 subsection (3) (a) I cannot request the CCAs on Previous loans which were then refinanced ad infinitum? up to the present loan? ( for which I have received information).

Could a Mod or cagger with legal expertise advise if this is correct? and if so is the Data Protection Act 1998 the way to get the required information?

Thank you in anticipation of advice.

aa

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by alanalana

Hello all,

I have a question on CCA 1974 and section 77 subsection (3) it states that subsection (1) does not apply to---
(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or
(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

I take it that this means that under section 77 subsection (3) (a) I cannot request the CCAs on Previous loans which were then refinanced ad infinitum? up to the present loan? ( for which I have received information).

Could a Mod or cagger with legal expertise advise if this is correct? and if so is the Data Protection Act 1998 the way to get the required information?

Thank you in anticipation of advice.

aa

Hello AA,

Yes I think you are correct on your assumption. Maybe post this question in the legal section of the debt threads, there will be more mods or legal bods helping in those sections

[alanalana]

Thanks HHNF.
Will do that or pm a mod to ask them to look at the post

You are an early bird

Regards

aa

[hellhasnofury]

Originally Posted by alanalana

Thanks HHNF.
Will do that or pm a mod to ask them to look at the post

You are an early bird

Regards

aa

Hello AA,

Up early for work, but you are as bad,

Mmmmh birds of a feather

[alanalana]

Hello HHNF,

Started a new thread on the Legal issues forum and Rory a nice helpful Mod has confirmed what I thought.

If you have had several loans and they have been refinanced then the banks are not legally bound to produce Consumer Credit Agreements for them under the terms of section 77 of the CCA 1974 except for a loan that is still current.

However they are required to provide them if you submit Subject Access Request asking for them. He mentioned that the banks should keep documentation on old loans for 5 years after they are closed. So all my loans fall into that 5 year bracket.

Also found a bit of a peach in my paperwork ref Pre Existing Medical Conditions.
PM me if you would like some info on this.

Regards

aa

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[alanalana]

Hello,

I have today forwarded letter three to the Information Commissioners Office in regard to my complaint as follows:

INFORMATION COMMISSIONERS OFFICE CASE REFERENCE xxxxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam,
I have received further correspondence from the Royal Bank of Scotland enclosed as item xx. My response is enclosed as item xx.

The Bank have not yet responded fully to my original Subject Access Request dated x Jan 08.

One of my concerns is that the data applicable to the first loan with Direct Line Financial Services would have passed the 5 year time limit in March 2008 for the retention of records as required by The Money Laundering Regulations 2007 Statutory Instrument 2007 No. 2157 Part 3 (19) (3) (a) (i).

If the Bank had responded within the statutory time limit (the Subject Access Request 40 days ) then the documents would by law have to be retained and have been available to me. This may now not be the case. If the records are not available because of the expiry of the five year limit, what action would be available to me in regard to their failure to provide the information requested within the five year limit?

It seems that The Royal Bank of Scotland are prepared to delay the provision of information requested under the terms of The Data Protection Act 1998 for as long as possible. They are certainly in my opinion flouting the Law of the land.
The letters are again duplicates and may be disposed of once your enquiries are completed.
Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

Yours sincerely

I am eagerly awaiting the response from the Information Commissioners Office with a bit of luck they will get the RBS to release all the relevant information to me then I can prepare a case for the return of the Missold PPI..

The lesson here I think ( and I admit I have been slow off the mark ) is to ask for everything in your Subject Access Request in fine detail, be as specific as possible so as not to allow the banks the ability to stall. They are allowed to enter into dialogue with you to assist them in getting the correct information but it can also give them the chance to take control.

If you are not specific in your Subject Access Request it gives them to opportunity to ask you to supply more information, so include everything from the customer care checklists they complete when you apply for the loan, to CCAs, Terms and Conditions, Policy documents, emails, normal mail, tapes or transcripts of telephone conversations, Loan application forms and anything elso you can think of at the time. When you get the documents on the loan check them all for the hidden FLAT rate interest details which were never mentioned when you took out the loan.

regards to all PPI claimants

aa

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[alanalana]

Hello all this is the next step to get RBS to sit up and act on my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request),

Mr xxxxxxx
See distribution.

xxxxxxxx 2008

Dear Sir,

Submission of a Very Serious Formal Complaint against the Royal Bank of Scotland

I wish to lodge a very serious formal complaint against the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) for their failure to fully comply with a Data Subject Access Request (S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) under the provisions of Section 7 Sub section (1) ( c ) (i) and (ii) of the Data Protection Act 1998 which is a statute within the Law of the British Isles.

On the 7 January 2008 I submitted a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to the Royal Bank of Scotland asking for information on five loan accounts which I have held, two with Direct Line Financial Services (DLFS) and three with RBS. Four of these loans were refinanced to subsequent loans up to the current loan which is still active.

To date, I have received statements on the three RBS loan accounts, a statement on my current account and since submitting a request for Consumer Credit Agreements under the provision of Section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I have now received the documentation on the existing loan.

Despite several further requests for the information as required by my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), none has been forthcoming.

Letters have been sent on:
24 January 2008
16 February 2008
12 March 2008
28 March 2008
2 April 2008
12 April 2008
12 April 2008 Request for CCA under provision of Consumer Credit Act 1974
19 April 2008

I have still not received Consumer Credit Agreements with associated paperwork on four of the loans. Because of the inordinate delays, the information requested on the first loan which was refinanced in March 2002 would be of no use as any claim against that loan would now be statute barred within the Scottish Courts.
I have not received data in the name of recordings of telephone conversations or transcripts of those conversations between the RBS and myself.
I have not received copies of emails or letters which I know exist.
I have also not received any properly certified documentation by Data Controllers within the RBS stating the information that I have requested has been disposed of, destroyed or erased.

The Royal Bank of Scotland is a member of the British Bankers Association (BBA), is licensed by the Financial Services Authority and should I believe, operate within the Law of the Land and therefore respond within the statutory timescales within Legal Acts at Law, namely the Data Protection Act 1998.

I have, when asked, provided information to the RBS, but it seems to me now, that they will try and delay supplying the data requested by using whatever delaying tactics they see fit. On one occasion referring me back to DLFS for the information I had requested. The fact that the DLFS had been legally transferred back to the RBS on 1 March 2006 (the transfer included all DLFS loans) was obviously overlooked by the Data Protection staff within the RBS.
This is indeed an extremely sorry state of affairs and it beggars belief that RBS staff would not be aware this Legal transfer had taken place.

My understanding is that the RBS had 40 days to fully supply all the information requested in my Subject Access Request, this has most certainly not happened.

I would therefore like to request that each addressee takes the appropriate measures to instruct or at least direct the RBS to supply this information to me as a matter of urgency.

I have a complaint lodged with the Information Commissioners Office Case Reference xxxxxx
I would now urge the Commissioner to consider an Enforcement notice against the RBS under Section 40 of the Data Protection Act.
I would also request that the Financial Services Authority, the Financial Ombudsman Service, the Office of Fair Trading and the British Bankers Association add this extremely serious complaint to their files on the Royal Bank of Scotland.



Yours sincerely



A xxxxxxxxxxx


Distribution:

The Financial Services Authority, 25 The North Colonnade, Canary Wharf, London, E14 5HS.

The Financial Ombudsman Service, South Quay Plaza, 183 Marsh Wall, London,
E14 9SR.

The Commissioner, Information Commissioners Office, Wyckuffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF.

The Information Commissioners Office, Casework and Advice Division, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF.

The Office of Fair Trading, OFT Enquiries, Fleetbank House, 2-6 Salisbury Square, London, EC4Y 8JX.

Chief Executive, British Bankers Association, Pinners Hall, 105-108 Old Broad Street, London, EC2N 1EX.

Any comments or advice on the above letter due for despatch shortly would be welcomed.

aa

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[alanalana]

Hello all,

Just bumping this up, please excuse me doing this but I am looking for some comforting advice on this letter (previous post 47) as the deadline is tomorrow and I have six envelopes waiting for stamps.

Any Mod advice would be most welcome.

Thank you

aa

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

Wish I could help, but this may keep it visible, as it's a complex one and you need all the eyes we can muster to take a look at it for you.

I'll have a toot if I spot anything of use.

Cheers,
BRW

[alanalana]

Hello BRW,

Thanks for the boost, anyway I believe I am well within my right to complain after nearly 4 months so I may as well complain to everyone, That way the message is loud and clear. ( Can you suggest any additional addressees )

Roll on the Information Commissioners Office response to my complaint.

I see that the Bank of England has made a statement about BONUS payments to banking staff suggesting not enough thought has been given to the risk element. Well now there's not an unexpected surprise

Keep on trucking you CAGers and good luck.

aa

[alanalana]

Hello all,

a departing shot as I head off to bed to rest before my data arrives tomorrow!!!!

this is a google search and just thought it was a little ironic to see this result......

News results for royal bank of scotland group



RTE.ieRoyal Bank of Scotland suggests planned job cuts could increase - 28 Apr 2008

AP LONDON: Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC indicated on Monday that it could step up planned job cuts after its takeover last year of Dutch investment bank ...International Herald Tribune - 106 related articles »
Bank of China targets RBS insurance assets: report - Marketwitch - 9 related articles »
Tatts Group Hires Four Banks for A$1 Billion Loan (Update2) - Bloomberg - 10 related articles »

RBS: Careers

Discover what it is like to work for The Royal Bank of Scotland Group, one of the world's largest financial services providers.
www.rbs.com/careers01.asp - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

These two items were listed next to each other. How does that instil confidence
in prospective RBS employees.

Hats off to google search

PS to the Mods this is not included as an advert for RBS Believe me!!!

aa

[alanalana]

Hello all,

Well the postman failed to deliver the goods (as requested in my Subject Access Request and multitude of other letter requests) todays deadline now passed so letter away to all addressees tomorrow.

I would still appreciate any comments on post 47.

regards
aa

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[freelance]

Bumpity bumpity bump

(and thanks for the advice on my threads!)

[alanalana]

freelance you are more than welcome.

PPI is a new issue and will take a while for CAGers to get to grips as the issue varies from bank to bank etc.

Appreciate the bump but it may be a case of uncharted territory the letter is going whatever..

Will post help when I can but I am a relative novice to this.

Regards

aa

[alanalana]

Hello all,

please see the attached link with regard to the Information Commissioners Office and enforcement notices under the Data Protection Act 1998.

Enforcement - Data protection

Some of the enforcements are against really serious stuff like the loss of a laptop....but within the terms of the Data Protection Act 1998 then surely a breach against an individual should count for as much in so far as the Act of Parliament has been breached and therefore should be enforced?

I am not a legal expert but I believe that any UK law should be enforced if breached.I am sure the Information Commissioners Office will do their stuff but I do understand the additional pressure with the claims for missold PPI..

And yes this is another bump up but with interest for the PPI reclaimers

aa

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[alanalana]

Hello all,

still no news. No mail. No response from Information Commissioners Office it's a waiting game. I will keep you all posted when I have news. I get a bit miffed when we have laws and people (banks) break them and nothing is done about it.

Good luck with your claims.

aa

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

At least it's nice weather at the moment, and a fairly quiet Week seeing as it started with a Bank Holiday!

UK plc seems to go off the boil in Bank Holiday Weeks, so I'm using the time to catch up with some Accounts and VAT!

Well, I would be, if I wasn't on CAG every 30 mins reading up on my Strategy for if/when the bankers make their next move! Keep finding out new threats, like Statutory Demands and nasty things like that.

But, far better that I know about these things and am ready for whatever crapola they are planning to shovel at me.

Have a good week, and chill out while waiting for a response.

Cheers,
BRW

[alanalana]

Hello BRW,

Yes we had at least three days of nice weather here. It makes a pleasant change. Yes I must not let my impatience take too much of a hold. I suppose you have to prepare for a long haul!

I am sure you will be totally prepared when the time comes and always remember the legal threads on this site there is a lot of legal knowhow out there

Just for your info I found a site on the barcodes if you want me to post I will on your thread. The general gist is the orange bar code is there to assist with digital sorting and directing of mail. Let me know it is an American site but will probably be the same for the UK.

Good luck with your accounts and VAT sums

Regards
aa

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

Just for your info I found a site on the barcodes if you want me to post I will on your thread. The general gist is the orange bar code is there to assist with digital sorting and directing of mail. Let me know it is an American site but will probably be the same for the UK.

If you could post, that would be useful. I have posted a Link to an American Site for the US Postal Service to Decode their new Intelligent Mail Barcode (IMB), which is similar looking to the Orange Barcodes, but not quite the same.

IOW, they probably use the same core Barcode format, but Royal Mail use their own coding structure for how A-Z and 0-9 is used, and also may have additional Characters as well.

I know it is for Routing, but I think there may be a Date in there somewhere, which would be fantastic IF we can read it.

But even the Routing details may have a use.

Keep chilling out!

Cheers,
BRW

[alanalana]

Hello all,

hot off the press.

Letter from bank received today 8 May, dated 30 Apr and posted first class.!!

Content as follows:

1. We have been unable to locate any paperwork relating to the two loans you have previously held with Royal Bank of Scotland. This does not form part of a Subject Access Request but we have forwarded this to our PPI Complaints Team.

2. With regard to the two loans with DLFS this has been passed on to the relevant Department who will correspond directly with you.

(Second time they have told me this)

3. We have been in touch with staff at Peterhead branch and they have no record of any telephone conversation between both parties.

(Singlar. I actually asked for copies or transcripts of all telephone conversations)

In light of Para 1 does anyone consider they are only presuming the Subject Access Request is dealing with the Current Loan and therefore not releasing anything on the previous loans which they may have telephone conversations on? which they may produce later.

This is getting to be too much. I have asked for advice on the legal thread but no response yet. Lets hope the Information Commissioners Office do their stuff.

Can anyone please shed any light on the fact my Subject Access Request dated 7 Apr requested all the information on five consecutive bank loans (two with Direct Line and three with RBS) and as per para 1 RBS state this does not form part of a Subject Access Request!!

from Rory a really knowledgeable Mod on the legal threads.

Well they wouldn't have to supply them under the Consumer Credit Act, but you could request them under a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) in which case they would have to supply them. They need to keep such documents for 5 years after closing the account, so they should still have them.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/...ations2007.pdf Part 3 19. Record Keeping.

They may be trying to avoid the Subject Access Request by clever wording only to produce information later.

Regards
a raving insomniac with a permanent twitch.
aa

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.