Private Parking Companies/Charges - Advice Paper (everything you need to know)

[esporta-victim]

thank you for a great post

[safepark]

Has anyone had dealings with Safe park UK whom Tesco use to enforce their land?

[lamma]

what makes you think it is Tescos land ? and yes.

[safepark]

Ok it may not Tescos land, I have just received my first letter from them and was wondering whether to ignore or not. Just wondered if anyone can tell me more about what to expect from them. If you look at the letter template thread on OCNs i have put more detail of the letter content. I am at the crossroads and dont know which way to go, but what i do know is that i will fight it every inch of the way!!

[lamma]

safe park are known to be nasty. with all PPC issues I always think that ignoring them completely is the best option that way they have no grip and if it ever was one of those very rare instances where they issued real court papers ignoring them would make no difference at all to the facts of the case.. others prefer the letters. I know of no time when completely ignoring the PPC letters (and the DCA ones) resulted in anything else but the thing going away - what I said about it making no difference to the facts of the case is true it is just that in my experience it never gets that far when the PPC is ignored completely. But would always advise keeping all the rubbish letters safe in the drawer. To me the primary and only question is how to use the rubbish they send to make formal complaints - to the landowner, DVLA, BPA, SRA, OFT, TS, MP. But knowing how to get the complaints in good shape takes knowing the relevant laws the PPCs break and the foibles of the people you are complaining to. But the more that complain the better for all of us in my view.

[safepark]

Can you tell me whats likely to happen next and in roughly what timeframe now that i have missed there 7 day deadline for paying up?

I have read about the pregnant woman who got a ticket for using a parent and child parking space. Safe Park would not back down, but Tesco did, its bad PR at the end of the day. Good Cop bad cop as far as i see it. Is this what you mean by nasty?

[lamma]

they will send more rubbish letters. you ignore them and it goes away. the nasty part is their clamping activities.

[Pesman]

Hi All

What a fantastic site thread! I didn't even realise what a scam this whole parking thing was until I fell victim to their totally unreasonable and aggresive behaviour.

I have a monthly season ticket to park at Kettering Railway Station and had assumed that the station was run by the Railway company as I purchase my parking ticket from the ticket office. When I neglegted to display my ticket one day I saw I had received one of the infamous yellow envelopes on my window. I took it straight to the station ticket office expecting to get the matter cleared up when I showed my season ticket for the month. That's when I discovered that the car park is operated by BPE and the railway office could do nothing and was basically uninterested in helping.

(Interestingly all display boards have the company name obscured by tape! I assume BPE took it over and couldn't be bothered to put up their own signs - this must further invalidate any 'contract')

I appealed and included a copy of my season ticket to show I had paid (being unaware of the scams and what a pointless exercise it was) and duly received a rejection of my appeal and a demand for £80 payable within 7 days or I would be sued. The appeal rejection was as follows...

"There are signs stating that a valid pay and display ticket must be clearly displayed in the windscreen with all details showing. If a ticket is purchased but not correctly displayed it is a violation of the terms and conditions. This includes tickets which are upside down or have fallen to the floor, as it is impossible for wardens to check these. It is accepted in the courts that wardens would not spend their time writing out penalty notices to legal vehicles that are correctly displaying tickets. This penelty charge notice was issued correctly."

I was obvioulsy incensed at there blunt refusal and started the research that led me to this forum. Two things particularly annoyed me.

1) I had paid and could show evidence
2) The appeal process convinently took over 4 weeks taking me well beyond any early settlement period (when I would have had to pay £40)

I have now responded with the first standard template letter and look forward to a fun-filled few months whilst this drags on.

I was wondering if I ought to have included the post about the Railways Act as this clearly shows that I was parked legally on Railway property (assuming it is still owned by them) - however that can wait until another letter.

I am also wondering how this can have been allowed to persist for so long if the law is so wooly. HAven't NCP built a business on this?

Anyway I'll keep posting on progress. Hopefully my story may prove as useful as the ones I have read on this forum.

[safepark]

Originally Posted by lamma

they will send more rubbish letters. you ignore them and it goes away. the nasty part is their clamping activities.

Can i ask what clamping activities? Do they find the alleged vehicle and clamp it at home etc???

[My Real Name]

Originally Posted by safepark

Can i ask what clamping activities? Do they find the alleged vehicle and clamp it at home etc???

No - that would probably be unlawful trespass of your property.

Their remit to clamp would extend only to the boundaries of the property on which they are contracted to act.

That's not to say that they might not try to clamp you if you drove onto that land, however.

If they were to do so, it would have to be within the terms of the clearly visible terms and conditions for parking at that moment.

i.e. They are acting unlawfully if they clamp your vehicle for a contravention that occurred at a different time.

[safepark]

Somebody else must have had dealings with Safe park, tell me your story please

[safepark]

Originally Posted by Pesman

Hi All

What a fantastic site thread! I didn't even realise what a scam this whole parking thing was until I fell victim to their totally unreasonable and aggresive behaviour.

I have a monthly season ticket to park at Kettering Railway Station and had assumed that the station was run by the Railway company as I purchase my parking ticket from the ticket office. When I neglegted to display my ticket one day I saw I had received one of the infamous yellow envelopes on my window. I took it straight to the station ticket office expecting to get the matter cleared up when I showed my season ticket for the month. That's when I discovered that the car park is operated by BPE and the railway office could do nothing and was basically uninterested in helping.

(Interestingly all display boards have the company name obscured by tape! I assume BPE took it over and couldn't be bothered to put up their own signs - this must further invalidate any 'contract')

I appealed and included a copy of my season ticket to show I had paid (being unaware of the scams and what a pointless exercise it was) and duly received a rejection of my appeal and a demand for £80 payable within 7 days or I would be sued. The appeal rejection was as follows...

"There are signs stating that a valid pay and display ticket must be clearly displayed in the windscreen with all details showing. If a ticket is purchased but not correctly displayed it is a violation of the terms and conditions. This includes tickets which are upside down or have fallen to the floor, as it is impossible for wardens to check these. It is accepted in the courts that wardens would not spend their time writing out penalty notices to legal vehicles that are correctly displaying tickets. This penelty charge notice was issued correctly."

I was obvioulsy incensed at there blunt refusal and started the research that led me to this forum. Two things particularly annoyed me.

1) I had paid and could show evidence
2) The appeal process convinently took over 4 weeks taking me well beyond any early settlement period (when I would have had to pay £40)

I have now responded with the first standard template letter and look forward to a fun-filled few months whilst this drags on.

I was wondering if I ought to have included the post about the Railways Act as this clearly shows that I was parked legally on Railway property (assuming it is still owned by them) - however that can wait until another letter.

I am also wondering how this can have been allowed to persist for so long if the law is so wooly. HAven't NCP built a business on this?

Anyway I'll keep posting on progress. Hopefully my story may prove as useful as the ones I have read on this forum.

Good Luck, tho you wont need it, they would nt have a leg to stand on in court. I wouldnt waste your time, go straight to a cease and desist stage and let them out there money where there mouths are!!!

[WAVE_131]

Petej2811 spelt it out pretty well in the first post. Now I'm a new kid on the block so if I am going over old ground I apologise but one thing struck me.

Going along with Petej's arguement some or all of the cash extorted out of the motorist should go to the owner of the land trespassed on. Is it? Or does it all go to the Clampers? If so, where is even the facade of restitution for damages (Distress?). National-clamps charge £30 pa for each sign so the owner pays National-clamps for the right to go "scalp hunting" on their property. Restitution does not come into it.

Remember, Al Capone was eventually caught out on his tax.

[WAVE_131]

Suggestion / opinion please.

National-Clamps (Lancashire Clamping Company Ltd) web site carries the ability to pay fines on line, with the information

QUOTE All Vehicle Immobilisation and F.P.N issuing is carried out by Franchisees of Akenham Ltd.

Akenham Ltd registered office P.O Box 3188 Road Town British Virgin Isles Registration No 18972 UNQUOTE

What is the legal position of this?
The Web site also claims that the Clamps are manufactured at HMP Wymot, A very cosy arrangement

[lamma]

Interesting.. worth exploring a bit in my view. As they are a franchisee who has the 'agent agreement' with the landowner (if it exists at all). If Akenham doesn't have it there is nothing to stop any clamping company just going in direct with the landowner and cutting Akenham out. I wonder what Akenham provides exactly for the franchisee ? Clamps etc are easily obtainable from UK companies. perhaps there is common ownership and the franchise is merely a tax dodge ? HMRCS ?

[WAVE_131]

Originally Posted by lamma

Interesting.. worth exploring a bit in my view. As they are a franchisee who has the 'agent agreement' with the landowner (if it exists at all). If Akenham doesn't have it there is nothing to stop any clamping company just going in direct with the landowner and cutting Akenham out. I wonder what Akenham provides exactly for the franchisee ? Clamps etc are easily obtainable from UK companies. perhaps there is common ownership and the franchise is merely a tax dodge ? HMRCS ?

Tax dodge....you're thinking along the same lines as me.

Company Documents (In this case the abreviated accounts) sent to Companies House for Lancashire Clamping Company inform us that "The Company is controled by Akenham ltd a company registered in the BVI but controlled from Gibraltar by its directors who are resident in Spain. Akenham provides the services of its directors and in the year charged £25,000 for this service. Akenhams interests in the UK are sometimes taken care of by Lancashire Clamping Co. who this year outsourced the work to Car Park Security ltd a company under common control

[WAVE_131]

The above quote was from 0ct 2007 documents. The 2006 Document was virtually the same but with the added comment that Lancashire Clamping Co charged Akenham £12k to look after their interests, in these 2006 documents there is no mention of Car Park Security.

I wonder, could motorists refuse to pay anything to National-clamping / Lancashire Clamping Co Ltd until the tax situation was clarified? We don't want to be a party to possible tax evasion, do we?