PCN for entering and stopping in a box junction

[mouni sadhu]

Hi,

I wonder if someone can offer any advice on the following matter:

My sister got a PCN for entering and stopping in a junction box from Croydon Council (place: Southend, Croydon).

She can't remember the offence and they didn't provide any evidence but just said that they have video evidence.

She paid the £50 fine but now she wants to know what she did wrong and appeal against the PCN. Is this possible? Are they not required to send photo evidence with PCN's?

Thanks for any advice!

Hitesh

[BaldyBaldwin]

it is not illegal to stop in a box junction, but it is illegal to enter a box junction when your exit is not clear(unless you are turning right).
Your sis should have requested to see the evidence within the 14 days of issue of the PCN, as it may have shown a reason as to why she had to stop on the box junction i.e. the actions of another driver, but as see she rquested to see the evidence now they may say that as she has paid the reduced amount of 50 pound they veiw it as an admission of guilt, but it might not hurt to try to get a copy of the tape just to see what grounds she might have to appeal.
Best of luck BB

[mouni sadhu]

thanks BB!

will have a go and see what happens!

[Poppet2]

I've just received a fine from LB Hamm & Fulham for entering and stopping in a box junction. The photographic evidence, which was taken from a camera, shows that it is indeed my car but the photo doesn't show me in a box junction. The photo names a road which is past the box junction so it appears that the camera footage doesn't truly represent the penalty. Can I contest this with the Council?

I remember entering the junction because the driver in front of me had braked suddenly but as I was only partially within the box, I wasn't blocking any traffic. The traffic lights at the junction changed very soon after my entry.

Opinions gratefully received.

[Rob S]

Poppet,

A still photograph taken from CCTV does not prove the offence. I would write in and ask to view the whole footage of the alleged incident. As stated earlier in the thread, the offence is entering the box junction without a clear exit. If your exit was clear when you entered and then you were forced to stop because of the actions of another motorist then that is not an offence.

It would be worthwhile going to PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice and looking in their parking section. Look out for a poster called Boxclever as he is an authority on box junction enforcement. This is his website:

Money Box Junction

[Zamzara]

Originally Posted by Rob S

As stated earlier in the thread, the offence is entering the box junction without a clear exit.

The offence is not complete unless the vehicle enters when the exit is not clear, AND subsequently stops because of a stationary vehicle. So you can enter with a blocked exit as long as you keep moving. You can also stop for any reason other than the blocked exit, including turning right. Councils don't seem to understand this very well, nor is the highway code entry accurate.

7 (1) Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, [box junctions] shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

[vish15]

hi guys, my name is vish and im a newby at drivin as for i hev jus recently passed my driving test but i recently been driving around station road, edgware where i came across a box junction and saw people stopping in the box without having to make a right turn.

the box junction that i am describing is situated on the main street where it leads to the edgware shopping centre main car park.

my concern is that there is a blue pole with a camera at top right nearby the box junction but i dont hev a clue whether the camera is for the box or not, and so seeing as you guys have an insight experience i ws wonderin if you guys help me by describing how a junction box camera looks like or whether this camera is one of the box junction cameras.

hope to hear from u guys soon....any help would be appreciated!

by the way the image is a drawing by someone who i hope doesnt mind me uploading this picture but the lamp post with camera shown on the drawing is the similar one to the one in edgware.

[crem]

Originally Posted by vish15

hi guys, my name is vish and im a newby at drivin as for i hev jus recently passed my driving test but i recently been driving around station road, edgware where i came across a box junction and saw people stopping in the box without having to make a right turn.

the box junction that i am describing is situated on the main street where it leads to the edgware shopping centre main car park.

my concern is that there is a blue pole with a camera at top right nearby the box junction but i dont hev a clue whether the camera is for the box or not, and so seeing as you guys have an insight experience i ws wonderin if you guys help me by describing how a junction box camera looks like or whether this camera is one of the box junction cameras.

hope to hear from u guys soon....any help would be appreciated!

by the way the image is a drawing by someone who i hope doesnt mind me uploading this picture but the lamp post with camera shown on the drawing is the similar one to the one in edgware.

Welcome to CAG vish15.

Surely you should be more concerned with clarifying that you understand how a box junction should be used correctly rather than worrying about whether the camera takes photos of cars in the junction making mistakes?

In general terms you are correct in your understanding of how to use the box. i.e. you should not enter the box unless you can see the exit you wish to take is clear (be that to the left, straight on or right), however you may enter the box and stop if your exit is clear but the only thing preventing you from exiting immediately is oncoming traffic. If you are applying this decision making each time before you enter the box then you shouldn't have any concern about what the camera is taking pics of.

[lamma]

Letter of the Law Money Box Junction

[vish15]

hey crem.. thanks for your concern and you are right about the junction box rule but as for a new driver like me i keep making silly mistakes now and then and a few days ago i drove and had to stop on the box because a driver in front of me stalled i think but the main reason i carried on driving into the box junction is because i could perfectly see that both me and the car in front can make it through without stopping.

fair enough i should have stopped and waited, i own up to that and will ber not to make the same mistake in the future but my main concern is that this lampost camera does not look like normal traffic calming cameras and i saw two others down the same street and i dont think they look at the box junction but instead they look down at the street...

i was wondering if you can clarify for me whether it is a box junction camera and whether i will get done for my silly mistake so i dnt hev to miserably wait 28 days to find out whether iv bn charged or not..

many thanks crem and a further help for clarifying the type of camera would really put me out me misery and id deeply appreciate it!!

cheers!!

[crem]

OK vish15 I can see where your concern may come from now. I still can't help with whether it is a box camera, but if it is, and assuming you did receive a PCN because of it, bear in mind they only send you a still photot as evidence. You will be able to view the original video of the incident and should therefore be able to point out that you did not enter the box whilst your exit was not clear. The fact that someone stalled or broke down in from of you should be evident on the video.

[vish15]

many thanks crem ill ber that in mind..
just one last question.
what do the typical junction box cameras look like because i have tried looking for them everywhere and cannot find any?