Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[crem]

Originally Posted by Vermillion

I am wary of replying because if it's anything like Nigerian email scams, it's a way of getting you hooked. However, I could string them along with dripfeeding the illegalities..
Any thoughts welcome.

That is the point many on here highlight Vermillion. If you reply then they consider you rattled and raise you to the top of their "people to harrass" list.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Valhalla

Hello

I hope this question is relevant to this thead but can any one tell me why it is lawful for local councils ( or any other body charging for car parking ) to use machines that do not give change ?

If you go into any retail shop the price must be displayed ( I think this is a requirement of the law ) and if you pay more than the stipulated amount I think it is an obligation on the part of the retailer to give you the correct change.

Why is it then that in a car park the tariff is clearly displayed on the ticket machine and yet thay can take more more than is required and give no change ?

I can't think of any other instance except car parking where this happens. Is it legal ? If so which part of the law allows this ? If not, why do we put up with it ?

Valhalla

Are you able to insert the exact amount to cover the period you intend to stay? & if not it's unlawful.

When you enter the CP you enter into an agreement to pay the displayed tariff & if through no fault of your own you can't the CP owner has breached that contract & no tariff is payable.

eg they cannot set a tariff of say 50p per 30mins when their machine only accepts £1 coins without giving change. Not only is that unlawful it's also a con widely practised by CP operators particularly those run by local authorities


Anyone who gets a ticket under such circumstances should refuse to pay on the grounds that their system is unlawful as per the above.

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by JonCris

Are you able to insert the exact amount to cover the period you intend to stay? & if not it's unlawful.

When you enter the CP you enter into an agreement to pay the displayed tariff & if through no fault of your own you can't the CP owner has breached that contract & no tariff is payable.

eg they cannot set a tariff of say 50p per 30mins when their machine only accepts £1 coins without giving change. Not only is that unlawful it's also a con widely practised by CP operators particularly those run by local authorities


Anyone who gets a ticket under such circumstances should refuse to pay on the grounds that their system is unlawful as per the above.

I think the OP is refering to machines that take all coins but if you overpay do not give change. The usual reason for this is (a) for security reasons the machines do not contain cash and any cash inserted falls into a secure vault in the base as the actual machine is vunerable to theft. (b) machines that give cash are more prone to break down and run out of cash and require filling with change at least daily, where as ones that dont give change only require routine maintenance.
The obvious solution would be to calibrate machines to give the time purchased. For example if it was £1.60 an hour and you put £2 coin in you would get 1 hour 15 mins and not lose 40p as is usually the case. The problem with this is it can lead to paying over the maximum stay period which in turn leads to other problems.
The simplest option if a regular user of pay and display is to keep a supply of change in the car.

[JonCris]

I'm fully aware of what the machines do or do not do & why they don't store change but that's no excuse for ripping off the public

I understand what the OP means are those CP's which offer 1hr parking for say £1.50p but who's machines only accept £1 coins thereby forcing you to pay £2.

[crem]

Originally Posted by JonCris

I'm fully aware of what the machines do or do not do & why they don't store change but that's no excuse for ripping off the public

I understand what the OP means are those CP's which offer 1hr parking for say £1.50p but who's machines only accept £1 coins thereby forcing you to pay £2.

I would say that is not dis-similar to how we are forced to buy petrol; it is advertised at say 115.9 per litre, but how can I buy and pay for such a quantity?

[TideTurner]

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

The simplest option if a regular user of pay and display is to keep a supply of change in the car.

Cost of stolen change from car £5.30
Cost of replacement window £150.00

[BRITSRUS]

hi,i got a big question as in how i stand parking on a motorway services.i drive an artic approx 60ft long,at knutsford services m6 j19 (n),i had to stop for a legal break having been held up in traffic,all the lorry bays were full so i parked on left hand side opposite petrol pump,its extremely wide and not obstructing anything,but is a double yellow line.i then went into petrol forecourt to use toilets and purchase chocolate,when i came out,youv;e guessed i was clamped all in a space of half hour from when i stopped,cps enforcement(northern)ltd are the muppets involved £250 for causing an obstruction not parking on yellows...i paid because high value load,have no choice at that time,but have discovered that so called ticket has no date etc on it just the reason that i was immobilised,and number to phone,,how legit is this on so called private land,also called a public highway by mr plod bear in mind,this company does have a sign at entrance and does not place a comma full stop from start to finish on wording,but does stipulate a £80 fee as a parking fine,what time does the clamp come into operation,when it suits it seems,any help?

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by BRITSRUS

hi,i got a big question as in how i stand parking on a motorway services.i drive an artic approx 60ft long,at knutsford services m6 j19 (n),i had to stop for a legal break having been held up in traffic,all the lorry bays were full so i parked on left hand side opposite petrol pump,its extremely wide and not obstructing anything,but is a double yellow line.i then went into petrol forecourt to use toilets and purchase chocolate,when i came out,youv;e guessed i was clamped all in a space of half hour from when i stopped,cps enforcement(northern)ltd are the muppets involved £250 for causing an obstruction not parking on yellows...i paid because high value load,have no choice at that time,but have discovered that so called ticket has no date etc on it just the reason that i was immobilised,and number to phone,,how legit is this on so called private land,also called a public highway by mr plod bear in mind,this company does have a sign at entrance and does not place a comma full stop from start to finish on wording,but does stipulate a £80 fee as a parking fine,what time does the clamp come into operation,when it suits it seems,any help?

If the signage was visible and you have already paid I would say realisticaly thats goodbye to the money. You could try reclaiming if you got clamped unlawfully the odds are not good though, (theres a guide to clamping at top of page)

[BRITSRUS]

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

If the signage was visible and you have already paid I would say realisticaly thats goodbye to the money. You could try reclaiming if you got clamped unlawfully the odds are not good though, (theres a guide to clamping at top of page)

thanks for speedy reply,i appealed thru there web address asking for the photo,which shows they take with time and place,and they have ignored me,im quite happy to go for a county court claim against,the kermits if they dont provide me with it,could be fun sending bailiffs to there office,only fair im able to gather evidence against them,if the law says i must take a break,why not a public service area,and if they cant provide me with a parking slot,im still not allowed to break the law,bit of a two way thing

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

[JonCris]

How long after you parked were you clamped??

[BRITSRUS]

Originally Posted by JonCris

How long after you parked were you clamped??

within 20 minutes,i presume the the services are obligated to provide me with refresment and toilets,as part of there operating licence,and the law.
ie vosa would back,my claim,i suppose if im being fair,i would claim against clamping company in civil court hoping they wont turn up to counter claim,i ask for judgement,i get awarded,justice is done, any views thanks

[scammed&grumpy]

Originally Posted by BRITSRUS

within 20 minutes,i presume the the services are obligated to provide me with refresment and toilets,as part of there operating licence,and the law.
ie vosa would back,my claim,i suppose if im being fair,i would claim against clamping company in civil court hoping they wont turn up to counter claim,i ask for judgement,i get awarded,justice is done, any views thanks

Motorway services are obliged to provide parking as part of their contract. It would appear that if they were unable to provide parking they would be IN BREACH OF CONTRACT with the government. Frequently parking control is outsourced to private firms or "cowboy clampers" as I call them and quite frequently the actual clamp fitters have criminal records. Allegedly the clampers are paid a bounty for every clamp fitted and this is why they are so keen. IMHO these people are just pirates and highway robbers and should be dealt with in the traditional manner. Unfortunately this is no longer legal. Possibly you could sue the motorway services for failing to provide parking as this has caused you a loss. (note that they cannot claim that your being on double yellows caused them a loss because it didn't). Trying to get your money back from the actual clampers will probably be extremely difficult even if you can discover their name and address. The motorway services company will however be in the phone book so to speak. Good Luck!

[JonCris]

Sorry to be a tease but regarding clamping................. I suggest all those interest in the subject keep an eye on the legal press where they may learn something to their advantage in the near future............. unless that is your a clamper

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[crem]

<-- *Prepares the waterboard bench ready for JonCris*

[pin1onu]

Originally Posted by BRITSRUS

hi,i got a big question as in how i stand parking on a motorway services.i drive an artic approx 60ft long,at knutsford services m6 j19 (n),i had to stop for a legal break having been held up in traffic,all the lorry bays were full so i parked on left hand side opposite petrol pump,its extremely wide and not obstructing anything,but is a double yellow line.i then went into petrol forecourt to use toilets and purchase chocolate,when i came out,youv;e guessed i was clamped all in a space of half hour from when i stopped,cps enforcement(northern)ltd are the muppets involved £250 for causing an obstruction not parking on yellows...i paid because high value load,have no choice at that time,but have discovered that so called ticket has no date etc on it just the reason that i was immobilised,and number to phone,,how legit is this on so called private land,also called a public highway by mr plod bear in mind,this company does have a sign at entrance and does not place a comma full stop from start to finish on wording,but does stipulate a £80 fee as a parking fine,what time does the clamp come into operation,when it suits it seems,any help?

Have you had a read of the clamping guide in the stickies section?

Services do not constitute part of the motorway and would be classed as private land.

Unless there are clear and visible signs warning of clamping then IMO the clamping does not meet the case law requirements and you would have a case against the landowner and the clamping firm.

A receipt must contain the Security Industry Authority number of the clamper.

There are other requirements for clamping detailed in the guide.

BTW road markings on private land have no meaning. Unless the road has been adopted by a local council and is subject to a Traffic Regulation Order they are just graffiti on the road.

[JonCris]

What I can say is that clamping may constitute 'removal' so may not be lawful under any circumstances

[Zamzara]

Originally Posted by JonCris

What I can say is that clamping may constitute 'removal' so may not be lawful under any circumstances

Either way it's only a matter of time. Clamping is not compatible with consumer law so all the ancient case law which supposedly makes it legal has long been out of date.

[BRITSRUS]

thanks for your time and effort guys,in replies,county court summons is in process,to the clamping firm,will keep you updated on outcome,got a feeling the manager at services will not be available,he;s busy sorting the soggy chips out all 6 of them...

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

[scammed&grumpy]

Originally Posted by BRITSRUS

hi,i got a big question as in how i stand parking on a motorway services.i drive an artic approx 60ft long,at knutsford services m6 j19 (n),i had to stop for a legal break having been held up in traffic,all the lorry bays were full so i parked on left hand side opposite petrol pump,its extremely wide and not obstructing anything,but is a double yellow line.i then went into petrol forecourt to use toilets and purchase chocolate,when i came out,youv;e guessed i was clamped all in a space of half hour from when i stopped,cps enforcement(northern)ltd are the muppets involved £250 for causing an obstruction not parking on yellows...i paid because high value load,have no choice at that time,but have discovered that so called ticket has no date etc on it just the reason that i was immobilised,and number to phone,,how legit is this on so called private land,also called a public highway by mr plod bear in mind,this company does have a sign at entrance and does not place a comma full stop from start to finish on wording,but does stipulate a £80 fee as a parking fine,what time does the clamp come into operation,when it suits it seems,any help?

OK I'm not a solicitor but I can fly computer. I Googled around and found a page www.//tategardens.org/?p=12 It would appear that your clamping was UNLAWFUL because you were not given a properly signed and dated receipt with the vehicles details, time and location on it. Furthermore the actual clamp fitter is supposed to be LICENCED - not just the owner of the firm - and is supposed to have and show proper photo ID. Just scrawling "£250 paid with thanks" is unlawful. Good Luck.

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by BRITSRUS

county court summons is in process,to the clamping firm,

Don't forget to include the landowner in your action.