Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[seylectric]

This is turning into total hell. I am now being deliberately targeted. I got another parking ticket this morning, the third one in four days, for not renewing my £10 residents permit which expired on May 1st (I have been unable to collect my new one as the parking office closes before I finish work).

Not content with that they then sent out a tow truck to tow away my car. I stopped them before they were able to do anything, but this is now victimisation - another car was given a ticket for the same reason but no attempt was made to tow away that car so I'm obviously being targeted. I have now parked the car in a nearby street (no parking restrictions) so it *should* be safe there (but who knows when they resort to these tactics?).

I will now have to take the morning off work on Monday to get a permit, but this has gone too far and has to be stopped - especially if the tickets they are issuing are indeed proved to be illegal. Any suggestions on how to take this further? I'm tempted to phone the local press but don't want to make a prat of myself.

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[catflap]

This site just keeps on getting better!
I got a ticket on the 11/05 and was just planning to pay up (3rd in 3 months @ the same place)
Mine says Date notice attached 11/05/06.
Anybody know whether the law is the same in NI or even where I could find out?

Thanks

[seylectric]

Interesting email from appeal now.com:

"I will be on the Mike Dickin Show again this Sunday evening 10pm - 1am. I am delighted to say that Neil Herron (The People's No Campaign) will also be appearing.

The last few weeks since the Trevor McDonald show have sparked some amazing parking and congestion charge stories. So do listen in.

If you wish to call the programme ring 08704 20 20 20

Regards,

Barrie Segal

Founder of AppealNow.com"

I haven't yet looked to see which programme this refers to, will post here if I do find out.

Update: this looks like a feature on talksport. 1089/1053 AM

[joneshousehold]

Just stumbled across this site whilst looking for something else. Not sure if anyone has already posted a link but I couldn't see one when I quickly looked through the thread

http://www.thepeoplesnocampaign.co.u...?id=116&loc=no

[seylectric]

That's Neil Herron's site, thanks for the link though, I hadn't realised it had not been posted yet.

Probably the best of those who are fighting this "cash machine" attitude of the local councils. Mr. Heeron's team have now published a copy of my PCN on the website.

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[robert_harper_2000]

What does anyone think of a data protection letter? Why isn't anyone answering this question.

Great job

[MondeoST24]

You could definitely add the 8% to your claim, but whether parking fines are covered under Data Protection Act i'm not sure. I suppose it is personal data in a relevent filing system, name, address, dates etc. Someone more up to speed with the Data Protection Act could probably answer, mods?

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[robert_harper_2000]

Well I have found 3 previous fines, each are printed incorrectly - so each could be argued with the 8%?

The Data Protection Act ... still goes unanswered then?

[seylectric]

If these tickets ARE found to be illegal/invalid then 8% interest is the least of their problems. I've been chased by bailiffs for three tickets dating back nearly two years, they now want a staggering £774.

All charges have to be reasonable, no sane man would judge £774 charges for three outstanding parking tix to be reasonable so that's illegal. Ongoing harrassment is illegal (non-stop letters, continued threats to take away my car EVEN THOUGH they have been informed that they can not legally do so), and so on.

Not only is all of this illegal, it now turns out that the tickets were issued illegally in the first place because they are wrongly worded so they are effectively chasing me for something they should be asking for in the first place. So as I said, 8% interest is the least of their problems. It may take a while, but watch this space...

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[robert_harper_2000]

An answer! Under freedom of information act they have 20 days with full details.

I'm trying to get address for Brighton area now!

Get writing everyone lol

[seylectric]

Nice one Robert, Brighton council should have the info you require (or should point you in the right direction).

[robert_harper_2000]

Well, got the parking address off the internet and re-worded the Data Protection Act letter from this websites Data Protection Act.

Will keep you posted

[seylectric]

16 days now since I sent in my tickets (4 in total) and there has been no reply yet.

This is VERY interesting because 4 days ago my stepson sent in an appeal for a Notice to Owner he recieved (his appeal was on the basis that he knew nothing about the alleged ticket, it wasn't stuck to the car window when he returned) but his appeal was rejected: They "have found no grounds for the cancellation of the charge" and state that "the PCN was correctly issued." Really? It might well have been issued but it wasn't on his car when he got to it, that's a breach of the legal requirements.

But my point is that they replied to this in four days but haven't managed to reply to mine in sixteen (which believe me is very unusual for the council). My guess is that they will sweep this under the carpet, I'm not expecting any sort of reply to mine.

I did get an email from Neil Herron today who has suggested that because of the wording - "Date of Offence" - they are suggesting that I committed a criminal offence, I never thought of it that way!


My main concern is that if these tickets are found to have been issued unlawfully all over the country, councils will issue less tickets and choose to tow away cars more often instead.

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[seylectric]

Update:

It just goes to show there is one rule for them and another one for the rest of us. For those of you who have been following this thread you will remember that my car was nearly towed away recently for parking outside my house in a residents parking area with no permit - I hadn't renewed it on time (council's fault). Seemingly it was quite acceptable for the council to block the road off with a tow truck for 15 minutes though - at the expense of the taxpayer since they didn't get to tow away my car.

The council have just opened a new park/play area around the corner from where I live and despite the fact that they have a parking area in side the park complex, there were three council vans parked on the corner just outside the park. The parking area - 20 yards away - was empty. One van was parked in a residents parking space and the other two parked on a tight corner, both on double yellow lines.

I phoned the parking office and told them to get someone round, but they said council vans were allowed to park there if on official business. I asked why it was acceptable to cause a hazard when there was an empty parking area in the park 20 yards away but he told me that was a matter for the park manager. B'locks.

Two hours later one of the vans was still parked on the corner. But you or I would have been ticketed at the least and possibly towed. So it's wrong to cause a hazard and right that you should get a ticket/towed unless you happen to be driving a van with "Blackpool Council" written on the side of it. Disgusted.


No reply yet re. the parking tickets.

[joneshousehold]

You ought to get the local press on to the council vans parking next time. Someone in our area did it with the police with their speed cameral vans. After about 3 or 4 bits of adverse publicity they soon changed. It didn't stop the speed vans but at least they stopped parking them illegally

[deemacperth]

Latest update on Southend PCN's. Fighting the ticket and have just had my appeal rejected. Worded my appeal to PATAS so waiting for my hearing now.

If anyones interested, here's the wording.

The contravention did not occur:

• I was in XXXXXXX collecting luggage and considered myself to be loading my vehicle. My colleague has corroborated this fact. I have enclosed a photocopy of my colleague’s letter. I have already explained twice to Southend on Sea council that the parking ticket on display was from earlier that morning. I had left and returned to assist my colleague.

The traffic order was invalid:

• I question the validity of the PCN as the PCN in question does not have the date of issue clearly marked as per the instructions of Section 66 (3) Road Traffic Act 1991 and does not adhere to the standards demonstrated clearly by the DoT model ticket. I refer the appeal panel to their learned colleague’s decisions in Macarthur v. Bury Metropolitan Borough Council and Aldridge v. Westminster City Council. As such, there is some confusion as to when the legal timeframe runs from the PCN which is implicitly required by RTA 1991 S66.

• I question the validity of the PCN as the PCN in question states “You are therefore required to pay a penalty of £60 within 28 days. The charge will be reduced to £30 if payment is received within 14 days.” contained in the information on the front of the PCN. I find this confusing as it implies payment of the penalty is required from the driver of the vehicle whereas in fact liability rests with the owner of the vehicle. This information is again repeated on the back of the PCN as follows: “If payment is not received within 14 days, you will be required to pay £60 (the full amount of the notice).” This conflicts with Section 66 (2) Road Traffic Act 1991 and does not adhere to the standards demonstrated clearly by the DoT model ticket.

My PCN is the usual bog standard one you get, has Date on it, but not date of issue. Also the owding on the back is ambiguous about who pays. this a point that hasn't been argued on it's own as of yet because the date of issue matter is enough to get the matter struck out. With these things, it's always better to give them as much ammunition as possible to strike the ticket out.

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[seylectric]

It's the almost automatic rejections that annoy me the most. As I said, we're supposed to comply with the law but they seem to think they can do what they please.

[deemacperth]

The way you combat that is to apply for full costs at the PATAS hearing. PATAS and NPAS (think I've got that right) will only issue costs for cases which have been vexatious at heart.

As Southend council clearly know the PCN wording is wrong due to the previously PATAS circular in March I believe it was, they are defending an indefensible case.

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by seylectric

16 days now since I sent in my tickets (4 in total) and there has been no reply yet.

This is VERY interesting because 4 days ago my stepson sent in an appeal for a Notice to Owner he recieved (his appeal was on the basis that he knew nothing about the alleged ticket, it wasn't stuck to the car window when he returned) but his appeal was rejected: They "have found no grounds for the cancellation of the charge" and state that "the PCN was correctly issued." Really? It might well have been issued but it wasn't on his car when he got to it, that's a breach of the legal requirements.

But my point is that they replied to this in four days but haven't managed to reply to mine in sixteen (which believe me is very unusual for the council). My guess is that they will sweep this under the carpet, I'm not expecting any sort of reply to mine.

I did get an email from Neil Herron today who has suggested that because of the wording - "Date of Offence" - they are suggesting that I committed a criminal offence, I never thought of it that way!


My main concern is that if these tickets are found to have been issued unlawfully all over the country, councils will issue less tickets and choose to tow away cars more often instead.

Without the rest of the procedure in place they can't.

If one part fails it all fails. They can't cherry pick.

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by seylectric

Update:

It just goes to show there is one rule for them and another one for the rest of us. For those of you who have been following this thread you will remember that my car was nearly towed away recently for parking outside my house in a residents parking area with no permit - I hadn't renewed it on time (council's fault). Seemingly it was quite acceptable for the council to block the road off with a tow truck for 15 minutes though - at the expense of the taxpayer since they didn't get to tow away my car.

The council have just opened a new park/play area around the corner from where I live and despite the fact that they have a parking area in side the park complex, there were three council vans parked on the corner just outside the park. The parking area - 20 yards away - was empty. One van was parked in a residents parking space and the other two parked on a tight corner, both on double yellow lines.

I phoned the parking office and told them to get someone round, but they said council vans were allowed to park there if on official business. I asked why it was acceptable to cause a hazard when there was an empty parking area in the park 20 yards away but he told me that was a matter for the park manager. B'locks.

Two hours later one of the vans was still parked on the corner. But you or I would have been ticketed at the least and possibly towed. So it's wrong to cause a hazard and right that you should get a ticket/towed unless you happen to be driving a van with "Blackpool Council" written on the side of it. Disgusted.


No reply yet re. the parking tickets.

Councils vans are not exempt. Not unless they got blue lights & a siren