Your parking ticket may be unlawful - Page 2

MondeoST24 · 5th May 2006, 18:40

If it does not say "date of issue" anywhere on the ticket then it is unenforcable. Make representations to this effect

seylectric · 5th May 2006, 18:47

It does say "Date of issue" but below this on the payment slip (which is all part of the same piece of paper, the whole ticket also seems to double up as a payment slip) it says "Date of Offence".

It's my understanding from the NPAS site that it should read "contravention of regulations", no "Offence".

From the NPAS site http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/Re...arkingRegu.asp

Under the decriminalised scheme brought in by the Road Traffic Act 1991, when a vehicle is, for example, parked on a yellow line during controlled hours, it is said to be parked ‘in contravention of the regulations’. Thus there are no offences, merely contraventions.

dw190 · 5th May 2006, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by seylectric

It does say "Date of issue" but below this on the payment slip (which is all part of the same piece of paper, the whole ticket also seems to double up as a payment slip) it says "Date of Offence".

The payment slip although attached is not part of the PCN.

Both the Date of Issue and the Date of Contravention MUST appear on the PCN.

The payment slip has nothing legally to do with the Penalty Charge Notice itself.

Take a look at page 2 of the link below.
http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/ab...20of%20PCN.pdf

seylectric · 6th May 2006, 02:41

I'll try and scan it in this weekend and reproduce it in text here; too much to type out.

One interesting point though, the PCN has a date of issue ( 05/05/2008 ) and a time or sorts ( 08:18 to 08:30 ) but no other date except for the bottom section which is not seperated in any way from the top section (not even by a printed line) says "Date of Offence" (same date).

So it's invalid either way. The PCN number on the supposedly seperate payment slip is the same as the one above on the PCN which forms part of the same document.

So if the Date of Issue and the Date of Contravention MUST appear on the PCN and it doesn't (because the date of Contravention doesn't appear at all, except in the form of a "Date of Offence" on the payment slip) then the ticket isn't worth the paper it's written on. It's wrongly worded whichever way you look at it, because the "Date of Contravention" isn't mentioned at all. That makes it invalid under section 66.

MondeoST24 · 6th May 2006, 04:49

As per previous post scan it and send to Neil Herron

metricmartyrs@btconnect.c om

Ask him what to do next, he will help.

seylectric · 6th May 2006, 11:23

Yes I thought Niel Herron might be interested. Will see what he has to say and update this with any developments.

dw190 · 6th May 2006, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by seylectric

"Date of Offence"

There is no Offence, this is a civil matter. (Decriminalised Parking Enforcement).

From what you say the ticket does not appear to comply.

If you load the tickey up to snapfish.com or imageshack.com you can place the link in a post. Don't forget to remove all personel id.

seylectric · 6th May 2006, 23:06

seylectric · 6th May 2006, 23:08

oops, sorry it's a bit big, not my forte this image hosting thingy. Have circled "Date of Offence in red".

dw190 · 7th May 2006, 00:05

The PCN only has the date of issue. It should also have a Date of Contravention.

AIUI the PCN should have the Date of Issue at the top of the Notice.

Your ticket has the Date of Issue in the place where the Date of Contravention should be.

The date highlighted in red (Date of Offence) is on the payment slip which (according to the Bury case) is NOT part of the PCN
http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/ab...20of%20PCN.pdf

seylectric · 7th May 2006, 01:07

That's exactly what I was getting at earlier, "Date of Contravention" doesn't appear anywhere on the document.

Additionally you can see how it could be argued that the payment slip is part of the PCN and not a seperate document.

This should be very interesting because I have bailiffs chasing me for three unpaid tickets, total now over £770. I'm not just looking to get my ticket cancelled, I want to hang the lot of 'em out to dry.

seylectric · 9th May 2006, 23:14

Sent a reply to the council telling them that I believe their ticket is unlawful and why.

However this is interesting, gleaned from another thread in "General Knowledge". According to the website http://www.parkingticket.co.uk/em.html the PCN should also have the colur of the car noted on it.

"If colour of the vehicle is incorrectly recorded on a parking ticket is it valid?

PAs are required to make a note of a number of things, including the colour of the vehicle, all of which must be correctly recorded for the ticket to be valid"

As you can see from the ticket above, the colour of my car is not present anywhere on the ticket! So if that's true it's another reason why the ticket is invalid.

Switch · 10th May 2006, 15:08

What a jobsworth I had the pleasure of meeting this afternoon.

I got a ticket this afternoon in a Council carpark, I was 9 minutes over the time of my ticket purchased.

My ticket expired at 13:40, the parking fine notification had been printed of at 13:49. The guy was walking away from the car as I approached it, he must have been there waiting for the seconds to roll over. 60.00 unless I pay within 14 days then its 30.00 tow rags.

The real frustrating thing is I went to the ticket machine on arrival paid my money, no ticket and no refund so had to goto to a different ticket machine, so in around about away although my tick was for an hour I had paid for two. Try proving that though.

Went to the council office to tell them that it was unreasonable and reported the broken machine to them as well, not in the least bit interested.

deemacperth · 10th May 2006, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switch

What a jobsworth I had the pleasure of meeting this afternoon.

I got a ticket this afternoon in a Council carpark, I was 9 minutes over the time of my ticket purchased.

My ticket expired at 13:40, the parking fine notification had been printed of at 13:49. The guy was walking away from the car as I approached it, he must have been there waiting for the seconds to roll over. 60.00 unless I pay within 14 days then its 30.00 tow rags.

The real frustrating thing is I went to the ticket machine on arrival paid my money, no ticket and no refund so had to goto to a different ticket machine, so in around about away although my tick was for an hour I had paid for two. Try proving that though.

Went to the council office to tell them that it was unreasonable and reported the broken machine to them as well, not in the least bit interested.

Read post 3 mate. Make sure the PCN is valid 1st. The majority of them still aren't.

Switch · 10th May 2006, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by deemacperth

Read post 3 mate. Make sure the PCN is valid 1st. The majority of them still aren't.

This one looks like it is within the requirements, but I will have a proper look later. The only differences I can is in post 3 it says 'Date of issue' whereas my says 'Date of noitice'. With regards to time mine says was seen in xxxxxxx Carpark at 13:49 by Parking Attendant (number) 051.

No mention though of when the vehicle was first seen but I don't see what difference that would make or am i missing the point here somewhere.

MondeoST24 · 10th May 2006, 16:36

If it doesn't say "date of issue" its unlawful

Dispute it.

Switch · 10th May 2006, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MondeoST24

If it doesn't say "date of issue" its unlawful

Dispute it.

Thanks MondeoST24,

The only reference to a date is 'Date of Notice', so I will dispute it.

Thanks

Switch

seylectric · 11th May 2006, 21:29

Switch, keep us posted.

Interesting twist to my tale:

I figured that the council woud have received my appeal letter yesterday. A simple check would be all it took to see whether or not I have renewed the expired resident's parking permit yet (I haven't).

So it was no real surprise to see a traffic warden in a van at 7.30 pm last night pull up, slap another (invalid) ticket on my car, get back in his van and drive off.

Tonight at 8pm exactly the same thing happened. So basically I'm now being deliberately targeted. Are they allowed to do this? There were two wardens this time, the same guy who issued the ticket last night and another one. What's more, they drove to the next block, I followed and parked behind them, and they sat there (in a resident's parking zone) for no apparent reason that I could see for 15 minutes before driving off. Does the same "no parking without a permit" law not apply to them, then?

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