Denbighshire Council Ignoring the Law - In Writing

[JimTheGent]

I took my young kids to ride on Thomas the Tank on the Llangollen railway last weekend. All the Pay & Display car parks were full so I parked in a free parking pay. I did not know the train journey would take two hours (I thought it was only round the station and back - assumed 30 minutes tops). Anyway, when I got back to the car there was a parking ticket.

I wrote a letter of appeal, explaining I did not know the duration of the train journey etc. I also cited the 1689 Bill of Rights Act etc.

Got the reply today and I am absolutely stunned. Naturally I am expected to pay, but what really gets me is they what they state about the Bill of Rights:

"The Bill applies to criminal proceedings not civil ones as is the case with Decriminalised Parking Enforcement (DPE). Moreover the Road Traffic Act is so specific in its laying down of the procedures to be used that it must take precedence over the old legislation. The 1689 Act is relevent, but there is no conflict between it and the Decriminalised Parking Scheme brought by the Road Traffic Act 1991 "

This is totally incorrect, factually misleading and legally it is a total bunch of crap. The Bill of Rights makes no distinction between criminal or civil proceedings. Since when has it become lawful for any new later ACT to take precendence over old legislation without implicitly stating the legislation it is repealing? Even the Bill of Rights states which legislation it deems illegal (Certain acts of James II were specifically named and declared illegal on this basis). The Bill of Rights forms the very basis of English Common Law and has been cited in many CIVIL cases.

It seems Denbighshire County Council not only are happy to disregard centuries of English Common Law, they appear to be rewriting the Law to suit themselves without having to go through Parliament.

I will be contacting Neil Herron from the Metric Martyrs for his input on this one and also how best to get a response.
Thoughts anyone?

[dw190]

Originally Posted by JimTheGent

I will be contacting Neil Herron from the Metric Martyrs for his input on this one and also how best to get a response.
Thoughts anyone?

Well Neil certainly takes pride in getting up the back of councils.

Have you checked your PCN? Is it lawful? Has it got 2 dates on, one the date of the contravention and the other being the date of issue.

[JimTheGent]

Yeah - checked the PCN and it has a date of issue and date of contravention. The only thing it does not have which I could possibly hang my hat on is it does not state the time that the vehicle was first seen - only the time it was actually booked.

I can post images of the PCN and also of their reply to my appeal if anyone is interested

[rogerebaker]

Jim

The bill of rights argument was recently thrown out of high court by a judicial review which decided that parking penalties were in fact civil responsibilities and not fines so the bill of rights was not relevant.

Therefor the council may have a point of sorts.

Have a good look at the ticket there are loads more possible faults apart from the date of issue problem.

I have had a few tickets recently and most of the faults are with the Notice to owners and charge certificates so dont give up hope yet.

Rog

[JimTheGent]

The only thing I can see on the ticket which may be an error on their part is the missing time when the vehicle was first seen. It has the time of the alleged contravention, but not when the vehicle was first seen.

Will this be enough to argue the ticket is incorrectly structured?

[rogerebaker]

Originally Posted by JimTheGent

The only thing I can see on the ticket which may be an error on their part is the missing time when the vehicle was first seen. It has the time of the alleged contravention, but not when the vehicle was first seen.

Will this be enough to argue the ticket is incorrectly structured?

To be honest thats unlikely to invalid it as it is not one of the must haves under the RTA 1991

If it is a council parking ticket have a look at this link
http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals....uments/Als.pdf

Its got about all the faults in it. Most are with the wording on how and when to pay and not the time of issue.

If that fails wait for the NTO. Ive had three of them lately and every one has had the start date as date of notice instead of date of service which the Adjudicators have said makes it uneforcable.

Which council is it

[JimTheGent]

I got the NTO this morning. Where should I look for the invalid date of Notice?

The council is Denbighshire County Council. The NTO has in the top right:
Penalty Charge Notice: (ticket number here)
PCN Issue Date: (date ticket was issued here)
NTO Issue Date: As Postmark

If you would like to see scans of the ticket and the NTO please let me know and I will upload them to my hosting space.

Thanks

Jim

[Skell18]

Go over the ticket with a fine toothed comb, any mistake and I mean the slightest error will render it invalid, incorrect registration (includes crossings out) name etc anything!! You could get it cancelled on appeal, i did it once, parked in a disabled bay with my partners blue badge showing (and partner in tow so legal) in Denbighshire (loggerheads national park) and was ticketed and got it over turned, I know that is completely different to your case but Denbighshire council cancelled it, some hope that they do (rarely) cancel tickets.

Surely they would have noted your arrival time at the bay in order to issue a ticket? (just proves my point that they randomly issue tickets) If not how could they know that you had overstayed?