Date if Issue

[wobbler]

I have read that if my parking ticket does not have the actual words 'Date of issue' on it, then it is invalid.

I am contesting a ticket, which is at quite an advanced stage - basically, we're going to Court soon - Im contesting it as I was parked on private ground.

However, if this 'date of issue' thing is correct, then I win automatically, as nowhere on my ticket does it say those words.


My question is: Does anyone have a source for the 'date of issue' thing? If I have to go to Court, I will look pretty stupid if I cannot quote chapter and verse about where it says that. The ticket was issued in Westminster, if thats relevant.


Thanks for your help.

Dan

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[wobbler]

Dont worry, found it!

[gbd]

Be wary of paying a parking ticket for parking on private ground.

There is no regulation of parking tickets as there is for wheel clampers. So when you say "private ground" you may have found yourself having been ticketed by a cowboy. These firms stick tickets on cars rather than wheel clamp them and then chase for payment. Lots of people will pay and they are quids in. Some people don't pay and they will threaten bailifs and legal action and increase the parking fine for every letter, phone call, or week that passes./

But they can't do anything without taking you to the County Court. And a County Court judge won't just roll over and say, ah, Mr X, because you parked on this private land you now have to pay £xxxx.xx.

The private landowner will have to show either a loss or a breach of contract. And he can only show breach of contract if he shows that the charges for parking on his land were clear and visible. That way, by parking on his land having been aware of the charges in advance a contract can be deemed.

The details in your post aren't clear whether or not this applies - but it is worth checking out first. It's your use of the words "private land" which rings alarm bells.

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	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[maybelline]

my brother in law had recd a ticket for parking in a private road but it runs alongise his own house? the main road is not private but there is a sign saying private road, he found the ticket on his car and they are a private company but will not budge on the fine and have increased it massively, should he pay up or challenge?

[Rob S]

I would challenge it. Let them take it to county court and let the judge decide. These companies rely on people succumbing to their bullying tactics and the multitude of threats that they make which scare them into paying up.

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

[blfuk1]

Originally Posted by Rob S

I would challenge it. Let them take it to county court and let the judge decide. These companies rely on people succumbing to their bullying tactics and the multitude of threats that they make which scare them into paying up.

Slightly outside my area of expertise but I helped a friend a while ago under similar circumstances. The following letter was never responded to and we've heard nothing since - no court action as threatened. The company was AS Securi-T: Some of the points I raised may be useful to you.

First let me say that Mrs X did not park illegally as to have done so would require a law or rule with the force of law. As your client has neither the authority of the Road Traffic Acts 1984 or 1991, perhaps you would be good enough to cite the Act or Regulation under which you believe Mrs X has committed an illegal act?

Second, Mrs X will not consent to pay the sums demanded by you on behalf of your client in the same way she did not consent to any cost for parking nor did she willingly assume the risk of any cost. Again, this is due to the fact that she was unaware of any rules for parking on the property as she had not seen any signs stating any rules.

You state that Mrs X’s lack of awareness of any signs is ‘not a tangible excuse’ nor will that reason ‘hold up in any kind of appeal of her ticket’. I refer you to Vine -v- Waltham Forest LBC which resulted in the landmark decision regarding the placement, size and content of warning notices in relation to parking on private land. From the evidence to hand I would suggest your signage falls far short of the requirement established by that decision and is clearly why Mrs X was not aware of the signs in the first place.

Mrs X will not need to ‘appeal’ the issue of the ticket; she will seek to challenge your client’s claim to any damages resulting from her parking where she did. Furthermore you cannot register Mrs X’s ‘debt’ without first seeking to establish the legitimacy of your client’s claim and, subsequently, whether or not a debt exists at all. This is a matter which only the civil courts can decide. You cannot declare a person a debtor without first establishing in law that a debt exists; to do otherwise would be a defamation of that person’s character.

I note in your letter [of the 6 December] that, if successful in obtaining a judgment in your client’s favour, you will seek to recover £150 plus court costs and interest. As court costs are fixed by a scale established by legislation I am puzzled by your previous claim for ‘legal’ costs (in your letter dated 27 September) in the sum of £1,762.50.

As you will clearly be aware of the scale of recoverable costs in the County Court then I can only presume the use of such an enormous sum within a letter demanding payment of a far lesser sum is intended to ‘scare’ the recipient into paying the lesser sum in fear of having to pay the larger sum in defence of your client’s claim.

I believe this is a very serious matter, as was your previous breach of the Data Protection Act 1998. You must have known that such a sum of costs could never be achieved in the civil courts for a claim of this nature. Accordingly, this might be viewed as a reckless use of words as to your intention and, consequently, a deception to obtain payment of £150.00. Were this belief established in a court of law it would clearly be an offence under the Theft Act 1968.

This is also an unfair practice as described by the Office of Fair Trading (“Applying unreasonable charges, e.g. charges not based on actual and necessary costs”.)

To conclude, my advice to Mrs X, upon receipt of the copy of your claim form will be to:

1. defend your client’s claim (nunquam indebitatus) and file a counterclaim for harassment (alarm and distress caused by the claim for substantial costs in the sum of £1,762.50);

2. apply to transfer proceedings to X County Court;

I await your comments with interest.

[maybelline]

many thanks for your replies, very helpful, I will let him know, he tends to just pay things because he is too busy to deal with it, I guess thats another reason why so many of these companies get away with it, until they run into the someone who knows 'their game'

[callumsgran]

Exactly! Good luck