No T bar at end of yellow line

[pt2537]

you parked illegally

No if the Lines DO NOT comply with the TSRGD 2002

just because the painted t bar wasnt there means nothing

Have to disagree there too, the law is clear, where the signs are not as prescribed you cannot enforce penal consequences on motorists who donot comply with them, De minimus does not apply to this situation

anyways the t bar doesnt need to be there.

thats not whatthe TSRGD 2002 says nor is it what the DfT say nor is it what the Courts have said when looking atthese circumstances

you cannot be punished for breaking the spirit of the law!!

lets hope that you never get a ticket for doing nothnig wrong eh

Regards

Paul

[pt2537]

sorry i have to disagree, you are entitled to you opinion but i have merely stated the law as it stands. it is not a technicality its the LAW plain and simple.

sorry but im training to be a lawyer, you will not change my opinion.

regards

paul

[Zamzara]

Bandit, you can't say whether the original poster was causing an obstruction without knowing the circumstances, and you weren't there. If he caused a dangerous obstruction, that is a crime and it would be a police matter. As things stand, he has merely been given a penalty charge by the council for a technical matter, and has not been accused of any crime or dangerous activity, so your comments are misguided.

Also, as I've said before, if you're going to play the 'moral' card then you would have to consider moral defences as well as moral accusations. The council will not do so and cannot be made to, as they see it as a pure technicality, and a pure technicality works both ways.

[Lula]

I actually watched a television programme a short while ago about precisely this, they guy who was the expert was a road planner and actually wrote some of the guidelines regarding the drawing of lines in the road and the boxes and he took a look just around london and found that 95% were incorrectly drawn and therefore unenforceable, admittedly, he didnt go all over the country, but I think that the results can be extrapolated.

[pt2537]

That expert Lula wouldnt have been richard bentley by chance would it, hes the oracle on these sorts of matters

[Lula]

I dont recall his name

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I wondered whether Bandit might be a Troll so I took a look at their other posts.

Inconclusive but seems that Bandit was quite happy to apply entirely different standards to those now professed to their own issue with bank charges.

IMHO unconstructive comments are best ignored.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[pt2537]

Home

i would say that if it was on tele then it was probably richard bentley

theres a link to his site, its worth a look for parking and speeding issues, hes on the register of expert witnesses and i have seen his work first hand hes excellent

i agree with you bernie and zamzara

Regards
paul

[jacktheskipper]

Originally Posted by bandit8450

you parked illegally..pay the fine and take some responsibility...just because the painted t bar wasnt there means nothing...heaven forbid you didnt cause a serious accident. anyways the t bar doesnt need to be there...you can be reported for obstruction - wilful or unnecessary..as an alternative offence. if some one screwed your house and took your tv and got off because of the tiniest technicality you would be the first to whinge...justice wouldnt be done..as in the case here.

Hey are you talking to me?!?

if you are I have to say that I was actually parked on the single yellow line and at the time it was a sunday night, at that time of day and night it is legal! Sundays are actually one of the busiest traffic days so does your argument make sense? Also cars were parked all the way along the road, a lot actually on doubles, no signs of police or traffic wardens there then when potentially there was an obstruction.
I live in the street and couldn't get a space in the parking bays. ( I do have a parking permit).
I went to move it but the road was still clogged with cars at 2am I eventually went to bed forgot until the next day when I saw the ticket.

OK I made the mistake of being too tired, it's hardly a comparison is it when someone robs your house and steals your property is it?
All I can say is that if the Police and council pursue burglars and muggers with 1/100 of the effort that they pursue these often absurd parking "offences" then I think everyone would gladly pay these charges.

They are breaking the law themselves by charging when the lines and regulations are invalid.

I wonder what the penalties are for that and why aren't they being pursued? I'll gladly pay mine, if they pay theirs.

[jacktheskipper]

I said I'd give an update ..

I have sent my formal appeal with good colour photos and lot's of points made with the help of Paul (thanks) Bernie etc, the brilliant and very helpful guy early in the thread Mr dw 190

It's gone back to the council again under a formal appeal, I have left a number of important points off though (perhaps to use at another time?) and why as said in another thread give them all your points which they can use as amo against you and find ways around it.

They will no doubt reject this appeal too, but then I can go to the adjudicator.

Of course with our good old fashioned british justice it could mean that I and the letter of the Law may be sacrificed to save our councils thousands repaying all the people that have been similarly incorrectly fined but .........hell I'm prepared to try!

[rob1308]

Hiya Folks,

Interesting thread, just got ticketed myself in an area where the lines are continuous around a small green/Park but at one point there are white hatched lines as seen in the attached picture over the double yellows. I parked just back from them and received a ticket. The road around the lower 3 sides as we see the picture is one-way. Does anyone know whether the ticket is enforceable? The double yellow's are continuous until they get covered by the hatched boxes and not a single t-bar to be seen?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.

Rob.

[NaciravBanks]

Hi jacktheskipper, im following this thread with intrest and would just like to wish you all the best withyour case. Good Luck!

Nacira vbmenu_register("postmenu _1222721", true);

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by rob1308

Hiya Folks,

Interesting thread, just got ticketed myself in an area where the lines are continuous around a small green/Park but at one point there are white hatched lines as seen in the attached picture over the double yellows. I parked just back from them and received a ticket. The road around the lower 3 sides as we see the picture is one-way. Does anyone know whether the ticket is enforceable? The double yellow's are continuous until they get covered by the hatched boxes and not a single t-bar to be seen?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.

Rob.

A T bar is only needed at the end of a restriction and since there is no end there is no t bar!

[jacktheskipper]

Originally Posted by NaciravBanks

Hi jacktheskipper, im following this thread with intrest and would just like to wish you all the best withyour case. Good Luck!

Nacira vbmenu_register("postmenu _1222721", true);

Thanks, it will be a week or so before I know what's happening next.

Anyone know what happened to Bandit's posts? either they've been taken off or he's deleted them...

To Rob1308 ... have a look at the fightback forums FightBack Forums

they give pretty good suggestions and are very helpful, it is a hassle looking up all the info to fight your case though. Might be worth double checking with them.

[pt2537]

Good luck Jacktheskipper

not that you will need it of course

let us know how you go

oh bandits posts i do believe they have been removed, Moderated you could say

Regards

paul

[jacktheskipper]

Hello ladies and gentleman,

I said I would keep you informed of the developments of my parking appeal and there has been a development.

I have just returned from a short holiday and fortunately used the royal mail keepsafe service ( they hold your mail until you get back).
I had a set of about 10 letters one of which from B&NEs council called a "Charge Certificate" in big red letters and at the bottom "It is now too late to appeal against paying the penalty" it goes on to say about the debt being pursued by bailiffs.

Now you can imagine how this felt when I saw this, ... it said about me not sending them out the reasons and evidence to cancel and so on.

But the point was I did!

I did send it by recorded delivery as someone here very sensibly advised, I phoned them and they maintained they hadn't received any representation from me, I warned the receptionist that any bailiff or indeed any officer etc attempting to take any of my property would be met with ultimate force ... this will happen one day and I do believe some of these people have been killed or crippled but it's covered up you rarely see reports of it.


The lady at this point put the phone down on me.

Fuming I drew the best and most deadly blade from the kitchen knife rack and imagined using it to rip and spill the lower abdomen from a bailiffs body you know, as you do.

Calming down I knew I had sent the letter of representation via recorded delivery the online service clearly showed it had been received and signed for by someone from their dept.

I phoned again the same receptionist quickly transferred me to a more senior woman, who ask me for the details from my point of view and again said they hadn't received the letter, I quoted the recorded delivery item number.
And here's the part you will need to remember yourselves ... she asked whether I'd returned the Notice to Owner form ...

Of course I said I had but importantly I'd made a photo copy of both sides of this document because if you send it back ... how can you prove what date etc they've quoted you?

I pointed that I'd done this photo copy at this point she asked whether I'd had the recorded delivery number and receipt of course I have and said I have photo copies and copies of EVERYTHING.
Here she started to sound a little worried herself.

The recorded online clearly shows that they received this within the appeal time yet 6 days later they send my out the Charge Certificate.

This lady takes my number and promises that after they've checked the recorded delivery they will get back to me.
About 10 minutes pass and my phone goes and another more senior lady tells me that whoops the Charge Certificate has been sent out by mistake and my letter had been received but placed into a pending file until I got back from holiday.

I pointed out that it was sent some days after the letter was received, she said well it was "in error"
and that they are going to look at it now I'm back next week...

I'll let you know what happens next.

[jacktheskipper]

Hello again everyone,

I have my date for the personal hearing for the parking adjudicator set for March 2008.

The council miraculously found my documents I'd sent them when I give the time date and name of the person who'd signed for them at their office.

They did send an official Notice of Rejection and cancelled the "charge certificate with a application form for the Adjucator.

I got a dossier of copies of photos and letters I'd sent the council with comments and filled in a separate page with other info. This was over Christmas in fact I sent on the 20 th december but they actually got on 5th January once again I'd sent it first class recorded delivery ( supposedly a 1 day service!)
So they did receive within the deadline because you are given more time for christmas. Despite the council sending me another "charge certificate" for £90 the adjucators office have frozen and overuled it and it stands at £60 even if I lose the case.

Since all this I see they're going to bring in higher charges for parking particularly where I live and of the penalties for parking on lines throughout the UK.

The council have yet to send me any TR0 or the details of the ombudsman. I am going forward the letters the council sent me to the adjudicators office just to show the dismissive tone of them.

If anyone else has got any more help or advice on what else to do or say then I will be glad to hear it.

I will report any more details as and when they come to hand.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[jacktheskipper]

I have had the NPAS hearing on 18th March 2007 and the adjucator ruled in my favour!

I have still to receive the written confirmation, it wasn't as easy as I thought though and at one point I thought he was favouring the council. He did agree that their signage i.e. the badly painted road lines wasn't adequate and for that reason dismissed this.

My other points like the ticket wording he reckoned they were within the correct parameters.

Of course the council could go to the high court but that's probably unlikely.

I will post again when the written confirmation comes through.

	What are your rights at work Follow this link to read the review of the Guide to your Rights at work, published by Lawpack

[jacktheskipper]

Well the written confirmation came through.

What do I do now to get refunds for all the other people that have been fined on this stretch of road.

Anyone able to tell me?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Originally Posted by jacktheskipper

Well the written confirmation came through.

What do I do now to get refunds for all the other people that have been fined on this stretch of road.

Anyone able to tell me?

Well done on your victory!

The council will regard those who have paid there PCNs as having accepted their contravention and the matter will be closed.

There is no provision to provide automatic refunds.

In theory they could follow a legal process of "restitution" but i suspect that this will be unlikely to succeed and will be more trouble than it is worth.

Buy youself a drink and be well satisfied with what you have achieved.