Removed an unlocked clamp

[elconguero]

Hi - first post for me - loads of great information to be found from people's shared experiences. Great resource.

Wondered if anyone has had an experience similar to me or has any thoughts on the following situation.

The parking where I live is 'controlled' by Parking Control Services. A visitor to me (from now on I shall just call them 'my visitor') was clamped whilst in a marked visitor bay, and displaying no permit - none is needed for the visitor bays. I protested the issue both to PCS (who predictably wouldn't listen) and the building management company who said they would speak to PCS.

I noticed that the clamp had not been locked, and so removed the clamp causing NO DAMAGE to it.

The clamp was returned to a PCS operative undamaged (believe me I wanted to ram it through their van windscreen, but remained calm). I also confirmed with the building management that yes the car was parked where it was authorised to do so, and no permit was needed. They had also spoken to PCS confirming that all fines issued to cars in visitor spaces will not be enforced.

2 months later a demand for the parking fine and clamp removal fee are sent to my visitor. Parking Control Services would have said that there is no grounds for appeal, the car was parked without a permit and a clamp was removed without their authority.

Despite further letters from my visitor and the building managers, Parking Control Services passed the penalty to a doorstep collection agency.

Furthermore, despite repeated requests, Parking Control Services will not release the photograph they took of the car 'proving' the alleged unauthorised parking. At first they said they could only release this to a solicitor, now they just return any mail with no acknowledgement of receipt.

In my eyes, Parking Control Services acted unlawfully when they clamped a vehicle they shouldn't have done, and their clamper showed negligence/incompetence by not locking the clamp shut.

Where do we stand now? Is it time to call a solicitor and/or push for any legal action against Parking Control Services?

We are pretty confused, and the way we see it, companies like PCS have a carte blanche to clamp anything they like for any reason and refuse to play ball when it comes to appeal.

Thanks for reading my rambles - it would be great if anyone can offer any suggestions or know of any further resources I can look up.

Cheers

[crem]

I'm no expert on clamps (or parking for that matter) but I gather from the many threads on here that private clampers, unlike PPC ticketers, do need a fully authorised license to operate and may therefore be in breach of their licencing authorities in what they have done. If so you may have recourse through their controlling body.

I am sure if you wait for further responses someone will clarify this shortly.

[lamma]

removing the clamp without damage is perfectly legal.
What they are doing is not legal.
have you checked out Parking Control Services on Companies House, with the SIA etc ?
their actions paint them as a fly by hight mob.

[nero12]

Originally Posted by lamma

removing the clamp without damage is perfectly legal.
What they are doing is not legal.
have you checked out Parking Control Services on Companies House, with the SIA etc ?
their actions paint them as a fly by hight mob.

for arguements sake, if say the clamper damaged your car could you then hold the clamp itself subject to return fee.

[Surfer01]

They have given you the clamp by putting it on your car. Sort of free gift. Keep it as it would not be theft.

[nero12]

Originally Posted by Surfer01

They have given you the clamp by putting it on your car. Sort of free gift. Keep it as it would not be theft.

LOL, would that work in reality as there are ways of getting some of the cheaper clamps off ie jack your car up and let the tyre down.

[Surfer01]

I was only kidding but having re-read maybe it is not a joke after all. Hmmm! I wonder how you would stand legally?

[dw190]

You could store it securely for them and demand a daily fee to be paid on collection.

As their charge is a removal fee and they didnt remove it you could add a removal fee equivelent to theirs to your daily charges..

[Al27]

I was only kidding but having re-read maybe it is not a joke after all. Hmmm! I wonder how you would stand legally?

Well, you didn't pay a removal fee and they haven't take the clamp back, so you can keep it!

Where do we stand now? Is it time to call a solicitor and/or push for any legal action against Parking Control Services?

We are pretty confused, and the way we see it, companies like PCS have a carte blanche to clamp anything they like for any reason and refuse to play ball when it comes to appeal.

There is no 'appeal process'. They are a private company who will obviously never turn money away by cancelling 'charges'.

The advice is the same as with private tickets:

• do not pay
• do not contact them
• ignore any letters you receive
• they will go away eventually

The doorstep collection agency are unlikely to knock on your door (it's a waste of petrol if they turn up an your not in!)
If they do turn up, either don't answer the door, tell them politely there is no debt and to take you to court or leave you alone, or tell them to sling their hook. Do not engage with them - they are utterly powerless.

[elconguero]

Thanks all for your input - at the moment we're going along the "tell them to take us to court if they think they can" route.

I'll share with you all anything that happens on this - it may be of use for the next 'victim' of these cowboys.

Cheers.

[pin1onu]

Originally Posted by elconguero

I noticed that the clamp had not been locked, and so removed the clamp causing NO DAMAGE to it.

The clamp was returned to a PCS operative undamaged (believe me I wanted to ram it through their van windscreen, but remained calm).
I also confirmed with the building management that yes the car was parked where it was authorised to do so, and no permit was needed. They had also spoken to PCS confirming that all fines issued to cars in visitor spaces will not be enforced.

Good for you. You've dealt with this brilliantly. They can't get you for theft or criminal damage.

So two months down the track they try it on with you for a clamp removal fee. Sorry guys Damage Distress Feasant doesn't work like that. It means they have to hold on the goods while they pay you damages for the trespass. As the trespass is now ended they've can't claim the damages.

I'd love to see this one argued in court.

Originally Posted by elconguero

Parking Control Services would have said that there is no grounds for appeal, the car was parked without a permit and a clamp was removed without their authority.

The clamp can be removed without their authority. There is no law that says you can't. Its no big deal. It's a civil matter and doesn't become a criminal matter unless it's damaged deliberately (criminal damage) or not returned (theft) and both require proof that it was you that took it. Not always easy for these people to provide.

I think the fact that they are flying in the face of the building management will go against them if they are silly enough to take it to court.

IMV what they are doing trying the usual bully boy tactics and you've been well advised. Frankly I'd be writing a see you in court letter to them and then getting on with the rest of my life.

I'd be making a complaint about their conduct to the SIA and also Trading Standards.

For all the good it'll do you might want to complain to the British Parking Association as these actions breach their charter as well.

Finally have a read of the stickies at the top of the forum (if you haven't done so already - The legalities of clamping and private parking charges are covered in both.)

[lamma]

I would just drop them a letter telling them where they can pick the clamp up. Signed for and witnessed of course. Is there anywhere you go to on your travels that would suit ? you don't want this done at home. I would pick the the location very carefully

[crem]

enconguero has already returned the clamp to their staff in their van lamma so there is no need for PCS to come to the house.

[lamma]

I would have made them fetch it themselves from a location of my choosing at a time of my choosing (and where parking was difficult for them(

[elconguero]

:o)

I was very tempted to attach it to their van on their next visit to the site - using a lock that I can't find the key for, of course!!



pin1onu - cheers for the SIA suggestion - we'll be drafting a letter soon.