PCN with Blue Badge on DYL.. Advice Please

[southendpaul]

Hi All,
My first post on here so please don't bite!

I'm looking for advice about a parking problem I had at the weekend.
My disabled wife and I drove into Southend Town Centre on Saturday Night. As there were no available parking spaces, and the Disabled Parking Bay was full, we parked on Double Yellow Lines. We were not causing an obstruction, and displayed her Blue Badge and Clock, (correctly set), on the Dashboard.

When we returned to the car about 30 Mins later, there was a PCN under the wiper.
It was a Southend on Sea Borough Council issued PCN. The contravention was 01.. Parked In A Restricted Street During Prescribed Hours.

The part of the street we were parked on has 2 signs, which read 'No Loading, Mon - Sat, 11.00am - 6.00pm' There are Double Yellow Lines on the road, and Single Yellow Kerb markings.
The time on the PCN is 20.26.

The Road Signs and Markings seem to be in order, what I am a litlle confused about is the timings.
If the No Loading restrictions are between 11am and 6pm, and we were issued a PCN at 8.26pm, shouldn't we have been allowed to Park on the Yellow Lines with my Wife's Blue Badge? I thought that it was only when there were Double Yellow Kerb Markings that you couldn't park at any time?

I would appreciate any advice about this, and whether we can appeal this PCN.
Many Thanks in advance,
Paul.

[nero12]

Originally Posted by southendpaul

Hi All,
My first post on here so please don't bite!

I'm looking for advice about a parking problem I had at the weekend.
My disabled wife and I drove into Southend Town Centre on Saturday Night. As there were no available parking spaces, and the Disabled Parking Bay was full, we parked on Double Yellow Lines. We were not causing an obstruction, and displayed her Blue Badge and Clock, (correctly set), on the Dashboard.

When we returned to the car about 30 Mins later, there was a PCN under the wiper.
It was a Southend on Sea Borough Council issued PCN. The contravention was 01.. Parked In A Restricted Street During Prescribed Hours.

The part of the street we were parked on has 2 signs, which read 'No Loading, Mon - Sat, 11.00am - 6.00pm' There are Double Yellow Lines on the road, and Single Yellow Kerb markings.
The time on the PCN is 20.26.

The Road Signs and Markings seem to be in order, what I am a litlle confused about is the timings.
If the No Loading restrictions are between 11am and 6pm, and we were issued a PCN at 8.26pm, shouldn't we have been allowed to Park on the Yellow Lines with my Wife's Blue Badge? I thought that it was only when there were Double Yellow Kerb Markings that you couldn't park at any time?

I would appreciate any advice about this, and whether we can appeal this PCN.
Many Thanks in advance,
Paul.

If you were showing a valid blue badge quite simply write to the La and tell them so.


Something along the lines of


name

adress


date


reg no


pcn no

dear sir madam

regarding the above pcn pcn I can confirm that a valid blue badge was on display and in order so I am surprised a pcn has been issued.

If you wish to persue this matter further can you please send the following

A copy of the attendants pocket book notes regarding the pcn

Any photographic evidence the attendant may have taken

Please treat this as a freedom of information request if need be.


I look forward to your response.

I would be grateful if you could acknowledge receipt of this communication in accordance
with your guidelines on responding to communications from members of the public.


Yours sincerely,



………………………… your name.


send it signed for .

[green_and_mean]

Forget the signs the PCN is for parking on a yellow line, single or double doesn't make a difference the restriction is the same. If it was a loading restriction you would have got an '02'. I would give the Council a ring (or write if they wont discuss on phone) and ask why the PCN was issued it could be any number of reasons to do with the badge, (obscured, altered. expired etc) until you know why you cannot really put together an appeal.

[southendpaul]

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

Forget the signs the PCN is for parking on a yellow line, single or double doesn't make a difference the restriction is the same. If it was a loading restriction you would have got an '02'. I would give the Council a ring (or write if they wont discuss on phone) and ask why the PCN was issued it could be any number of reasons to do with the badge, (obscured, altered. expired etc) until you know why you cannot really put together an appeal.

Many Thanks for the advice, and thank you Nero for the letter idea. I still have until the end of next week to appeal, so I will ring the Council to see what they say.
The Blue Badge and the clock were displayed correctly, so I think you are right about the contravention No.
I've uploaded the PCN if anyone would like to have a look.. Just to see if there may be anything else amiss..

[green_and_mean]

The PCN is non compliant in my opinion on at least one or two points if not more. The use of the word 'issued' is not meant to be used under the TMA 2004, the date the PCN is served is required not issued. There is also no mention of your right to appeal before the NTO is issued, which is now a statutary requirement.

[nero12]

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

The PCN is non compliant in my opinion on at least one or two points if not more. The use of the word 'issued' is not meant to be used under the TMA 2004, the date the PCN is served is required not issued. There is also no mention of your right to appeal before the NTO is issued, which is now a statutary requirement.

I thought the word 'served' meant that it was handed to the owner.

Also shouldnt the words 'date of issue' and 'date of contravention' be used instead of 'date of issue' and 'ON 31-5-2008' just a thought.

[green_and_mean]

There is no requirement for the wording, 'date of contravention', just the reason for issue and obviously the date and time form part of this. The word issued has been changed due to the possibility the PCN is served by post under the TMA 2004. Its served when put on the car or handed to driver or sent by post. Postal PCNs are not served the same day they are issued hence the distinction.

Contents of a penalty charge notice served under regulation 9

1. A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it by regulation 3(2) of the Representations and Appeals Regulations, state—
(a) the date on which the notice is served;
(b) the name of the enforcement authority;
(c) the registration mark of the vehicle involved in the alleged contravention;
(d) the date and the time at which the alleged contravention occurred;
(e) the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer serving the notice believes that a penalty charge is payable;
(f) the amount of the penalty charge;
(g) that the penalty charge must be paid not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice was served;
(h) that if the penalty charge is paid not later than the last day of the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which the notice is served, the penalty charge will be reduced by the amount of any applicable discount;
(i) the manner in which the penalty charge must be paid; and
(j) that if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the period of 28 days referred to in subparagraph (g), a notice to owner may be served by the enforcement authority on the owner of the vehicle.

[nero12]

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

There is no requirement for the wording, 'date of contravention', just the reason for issue and obviously the date and time form part of this. The word issued has been changed due to the possibility the PCN is served by post under the TMA 2004. Its served when put on the car or handed to driver or sent by post. Postal PCNs are not served the same day they are issued hence the distinction.

Contents of a penalty charge notice served under regulation 9

1. A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it by regulation 3(2) of the Representations and Appeals Regulations, state—
(a) the date on which the notice is served;
(b) the name of the enforcement authority;
(c) the registration mark of the vehicle involved in the alleged contravention;
(d) the date and the time at which the alleged contravention occurred;
(e) the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer serving the notice believes that a penalty charge is payable;
(f) the amount of the penalty charge;
(g) that the penalty charge must be paid not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice was served;
(h) that if the penalty charge is paid not later than the last day of the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which the notice is served, the penalty charge will be reduced by the amount of any applicable discount;
(i) the manner in which the penalty charge must be paid; and
(j) that if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the period of 28 days referred to in subparagraph (g), a notice to owner may be served by the enforcement authority on the owner of the vehicle.

And ways/right to appeal?

[green_and_mean]

The PCN is invalid, personally they take notice/service to be splitting hairs even though it is not the stronger point is in the information regarding appeals. It says if you wish to appeal you should wait for the NTO this is a lie and also diddles you out of your discount, it mentions 'enquiries' within 14 days at the bottom but an appeal and an equiry are not really the same thing in my opinion.

[nero12]

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

The PCN is invalid, personally they take notice/service to be splitting hairs even though it is not the stronger point is in the information regarding appeals. It says if you wish to appeal you should wait for the NTO this is a lie and also diddles you out of your discount, it mentions 'enquiries' within 14 days at the bottom but an appeal and an equiry are not really the same thing in my opinion.

Green you do make me smile,

I meant where in the regs does it say the pcn must show your right/ways to appeal.

Good work by the way

[green_and_mean]

PART 2 REPRESENTATIONS AND APPEALS IN RELATION TO NOTICES TO OWNER

Scope of Part 2 and duty to notify rights to make representations and to appeal

3.—(1) Regulations 4 to 7 have effect where a penalty charge which has become payable under the General Regulations has not been paid and either—
(a) a penalty charge notice has been served by a civil enforcement officer under regulation 9 of the General Regulations, and a notice to owner served by the enforcement authority under regulation 19 of those Regulations; or
(b) a penalty charge notice has been served under regulation 10 of the General Regulations.
(2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the General Regulations, include the following information—
(a) that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and
(b) that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—
(i) those representations will be considered;
(ii) but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

[southendpaul]

Thank you for your replies,
I have tried ringing the Council to ask about this matter, but they have told me that any enquiries have to be put in writing.
Instead of just making 'enquiries', I think I would be better off just appealing.
Am I correct in thinking that as long as my appeal is before the 14 days are up, the Council will 'freeze' the Penalty at the discounted amount, and if so, how long will that be for?
Many Thanks,
Paul

[MrShed]

I have little knowledge in this area - however, I think what G&M implies above is that it is fairly irrelevant when you appeal, as the notice is void due to the lack of required information on it. Indeed, appealing prior to the end of the 14 days may even counter the main argument that you were not made aware of the right to appeal prior to the end of the 14 day time limit....

However, I really am just thinking aloud, and I would await confirmation.

[southendpaul]

Originally Posted by southendpaul

I have tried ringing the Council to ask about this matter, but they have told me that any enquiries have to be put in writing.

I don't know who that was in the Civic Centre that told me that, but they were ill-informed!
I managed to get another No. that put me through to Parking Enquiries, and this is what they told me:

Our Ticket was for parking in an area with Loading Restrictions, and the comments made by the Attendant were that we were causing an obstruction for vehicles turning around the 'Ghost Island' in the middle of the street. (which we don't believe we were).

We still have until the weekend to appeal, so we're going up in person tommorow.
As the contravention is 01 on our Ticket, should we appeal, as G&M mentioned earlier, on the grounds that the contravention is wrong.
It should have been 02 for a Loading violation, and 92 for Causing an Obstruction.
BTW, the Blue Badge/Clock were in order, and we were parked outside of the 'No Loading' hours.
Thanks again,
Paul

[green_and_mean]

If you were outside the 'no loading' hours the contravention is correct, the Council are within their rights to issue to a blue badge if causing an obstruction, however its rarely used. No observation time has been given which also goes in your favor since obstruction generally implies you are parked for a period of time. Even double parking/parking more than 50cms from kerb which is the only obstructive parking PCN Councils can issue requires 5 mins observation since loading is an exemption.
I would appeal on the grounds the contravention did not take place, ask for a copy of the CEOs notes and we can take it from there.

[southendpaul]

Hi All,
Thought I'd let you know the latest. I went in person to Southend Civic Centre to enquire about this PCN.
I was seen very quickly, and discussed the matter with one of the Parking Management Team. The guy went through the notes, which stated that we were parked on DYL, and a Blue Badge was displayed correctly. There were photo's showing this. However, most of the comments seemed to concentrate on the fact that this took place in an area that was covered by Loading Restrictions, and by Double Yellow Kerb Clips.
I pointed out that the clips were single, and we were outside the restricted hours. Also, that if it was a loading area violation, shouldn't the contravention have been 02 instead of, or as well as 01?
He said that he tended to agree, so while I was there I filled in an on-line form appealing against the PCN, and asking for clarification as to why it had been issued in the first place.

That was Tuesday, and I received a letter this morning stating that my Mitigation had been accepted, and the PCN had been forwarded for cancellation.. (Although no explaination of either the issue or cancellation, but I can live with that)

I'd just like to say thank you to everyone for their comments and ideas,
Paul.